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Myn
8/10/2017 8:05pm,
Hello everyone,

I wanted to post this as an open question to anyone who might have any ideas for the structure of a form for verifying training hours under a particular instructor for a particular discipline. A semi-formal form which could serve as verification of training time (in hours, months, years, etc.) which could be accepted as verification of training, or for personal record-keeping purposes as not all Martial Arts have a ranking system, and outside of professional/amateur fights there aren't many ways to verify time spent in the art. Ideally, I'd picture it as something that is legit enough to pass any scrutiny and which could be used as a legitimate proof of time trained, (for example, something to bring to a new instructor if you have have to transfer gyms frequently due to travelling so your instructor at least gets a decent idea of how long you've trained and under whom).

Sorry if this sounds like a useless request, but as I move and travel frequently and have to change gyms accordingly with my new location (coming back to old gyms as I move back to those locations) it would help me, at least, with keeping track of hours trained as I go.

Thanks everyone for your time and consideration,

V/R

Myn

Myn
8/10/2017 8:15pm,
Hello everyone,

I wanted to post this as an open question to anyone who might have any ideas for the structure of a form for verifying training hours under a particular instructor for a particular discipline. A semi-formal form which could serve as verification of training time (in hours, months, years, etc.) which could be accepted as verification of training, or for personal record-keeping purposes as not all Martial Arts have a ranking system, and outside of professional/amateur fights there aren't many ways to verify time spent in the art. Ideally, I'd picture it as something that is legit enough to pass any scrutiny and which could be used as a legitimate proof of time trained, (for example, something to bring to a new instructor if you have have to transfer gyms frequently due to travelling so your instructor at least gets a decent idea of how long you've trained and under whom).

Sorry if this sounds like a useless request, but as I move and travel frequently and have to change gyms accordingly with my new location (coming back to old gyms as I move back to those locations) it would help me, at least, with keeping track of hours trained as I go.

Thanks everyone for your time and consideration,

V/R

Myn

(Cross posted from the Physical Training, Diet, and Health Forum as I'm not sure under which this best fits - if mods object to cross posting please feel free to delete one, thank you!)

BackFistMonkey
8/10/2017 8:23pm,
Hello everyone,

I wanted to post this as an open question to anyone who might have any ideas for the structure of a form for verifying training hours under a particular instructor for a particular discipline. A semi-formal form which could serve as verification of training time (in hours, months, years, etc.) which could be accepted as verification of training, or for personal record-keeping purposes as not all Martial Arts have a ranking system, and outside of professional/amateur fights there aren't many ways to verify time spent in the art. Ideally, I'd picture it as something that is legit enough to pass any scrutiny and which could be used as a legitimate proof of time trained, (for example, something to bring to a new instructor if you have have to transfer gyms frequently due to travelling so your instructor at least gets a decent idea of how long you've trained and under whom).

Sorry if this sounds like a useless request, but as I move and travel frequently and have to change gyms accordingly with my new location (coming back to old gyms as I move back to those locations) it would help me, at least, with keeping track of hours trained as I go.

Thanks everyone for your time and consideration,

V/R

Myn

Try Kronolog on google play (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cincom.kronolog) or the mac store thingy. It is a free and ad free time keeping app one of my buddies developed. You can use it to track all kinds of projects.

Good luck getting anyone to care tho. The most effective way to show your skill level and dedication to training is your *drum roll* skill level and dedication to training.

If you have 500 hours on the mat or seriously training striking it shows.

Myn
8/10/2017 8:33pm,
Thank you for your input! I mostly wanted to accomplish a few specific goals with a form such as this, as I communicated to Mr. Browning in PM - he recommended that I make it into a public post. A selection from my message to him is as follows:

"I wanted to ask for your input on the structure and verbage of a form which would accomplish the following:

1) identify a martial art being trained
2) verify the instructor and student for that art
3) verify the amount of time the instructor has taught the student in that art (in hours)
4) to act as a verification of training time in a somewhat more formal manner than a log book that just says "1.5 hours trained - muay thai - signature field"

Do you have any ideas for how I can accomplish these goals? It would ideally be utilized as a potential proof of training time acceptable even by bullshido standards (especially for arts such as Muay Thai where in the absense of a fight record being published there is no rank system outside of "kru" or "ajarn", etc.). This would also be useful as I travel very often and have multiple instructors in multiple countries"

I have a decent amount of training time, and I have an interest in fighting amateur or professional at some point when life allows, but that's just not a realistic option at the moment. This is more ideal for formal record keeping purposes than just as a pure display of material learned skillwise.

Thanks for your response though, I do appreciate you taking the time to read and respond!

V/R

Myn

BackFistMonkey
8/10/2017 8:56pm,
Thank you for your input! I mostly wanted to accomplish a few specific goals with a form such as this, as I communicated to Mr. Browning in PM - he recommended that I make it into a public post. A selection from my message to him is as follows:

"I wanted to ask for your input on the structure and verbage of a form which would accomplish the following:

1) identify a martial art being trained
2) verify the instructor and student for that art
3) verify the amount of time the instructor has taught the student in that art (in hours)
4) to act as a verification of training time in a somewhat more formal manner than a log book that just says "1.5 hours trained - muay thai - signature field"

Do you have any ideas for how I can accomplish these goals? It would ideally be utilized as a potential proof of training time acceptable even by bullshido standards (especially for arts such as Muay Thai where in the absense of a fight record being published there is no rank system outside of "kru" or "ajarn", etc.). This would also be useful as I travel very often and have multiple instructors in multiple countries"

I have a decent amount of training time, and I have an interest in fighting amateur or professional at some point when life allows, but that's just not a realistic option at the moment. This is more ideal for formal record keeping purposes than just as a pure display of material learned skillwise.

Thanks for your response though, I do appreciate you taking the time to read and respond!

V/R

Myn

I like the idea of tracking your hours training, for your own use. You could spend 20-30 minutes in Word or Excel to create a timesheet type form and have an instructors column to initial or sign off on but I feel as if it is an extra step and going to be ignored by instructors as a way to verify past training. It is easy to fake documents and whatnot so I don't know what kind of value it would have without cooperation between schools which kinda defeats the purpose because if the schools are communicating to verify these things, why not just pull you in the ring or on the mat and test your knowledge? Hours trained really means very little.

Why is the time you put in more important than the knowledge and skills you have acquired?

It doesn't matter how many hours you have trained if you don't know the material, but it would be a nice way to keep yourself honest and organize your time to help motivate you to meet your training goals.

Myn
8/10/2017 9:24pm,
Great question! I see it as more of a Curriculum Vitae of Martial Arts training. One good reason to have time tracked by instructor is to keep your time trained under them for your own records, and to add ligitimacy to your own training record if questioned.

100 hours training under Buakaw or Saenchai is NOT equivilent to 100 hours training under your local instructor.

Just as BJJ is very conscious of lineage I like to be able to look back at the evolution of my own training, the time over which I trained with whom and what I got out of it, and keep track of my martial arts journey. I also think it would be a nice thing to track over years so that when questioned about things like, "how many hours did it take you to get good enough for X goal/objective" I can give a real answer based on evidence.

Also, if one day I decide to open a school or instruct at one, it would be nice to be able to give a detailed and comprehensive record of times, dates, places, and instructor to back up my experience - the last thing I want to do if I train Muay Thai is be called out on MABS by someone and not be able to provide proof of training because who knows which country I was training in at the time, and under whom?

I think every martial artist is the culmination of their training, and I think every real instructor has something to offer. In 30 years I want to be able to look back and have the most comprehensive possible record of what experiences led me to be the martial artist I am.

Thanks again for your valued input - it's appreciated as always.

V/R

Myn

BackFistMonkey
8/10/2017 9:34pm,
100 hours training under Buakaw or Saenchai is NOT equivilent to 100 hours training under your local instructor.


It is if you still suck or have a great natural ability and can make Wing Chun work.

Myn
8/10/2017 9:49pm,
It is if you still suck or have a great natural ability and can make Wing Chun work.

I would argue that even if you are the most inept individual to ever train in the martial arts you would still get more out of training with Buakaw or Saenchai than some random instructor. Likewise, you would gain much more from training under them if you have a great natural ability than with an average or poor instructor. :)

Still I think A curriculum vitae would be an attractive record for martial artists in the same way that it's attractive for people in other disciplines.

Harvard is just a college, so is San Diego State University - of course you can only judge someone's competence in their field of study through demonstration, but even before they demonstrate, all other things being equal you can already make an educated guess as to who will perform better based on the quality of education provided from Harvard vs. San Diego State.

1 hour is 1 hour, but sometimes the hours aren't weighted equally.

I think it could be useful for introspection and for demonstration to be able to produce on demand a verification of training under a specific person for a specific period of time.

Thanks for your input, of course!

V/R

Myn

BackFistMonkey
8/10/2017 9:55pm,
I would argue that even if you are the most inept individual to ever train in the martial arts you would still get more out of training with Buakaw or Saenchai than some random instructor. Likewise, you would gain much more from training under them if you have a great natural ability than with an average or poor instructor. :)

Still I think A curriculum vitae would be an attractive record for martial artists in the same way that it's attractive for people in other disciplines.

Harvard is just a college, so is San Diego State University - of course you can only judge someone's competence in their field of study through demonstration, but even before they demonstrate, all other things being equal you can already make an educated guess as to who will perform better based on the quality of education provided from Harvard vs. San Diego State.

1 hour is 1 hour, but sometimes the hours aren't weighted equally.

I think it could be useful for introspection and for demonstration to be able to produce on demand a verification of training under a specific person for a specific period of time.

Thanks for your input, of course!

V/R

Myn

I still think your actual skill level is much more important than the hours you have spent to get there.

Myn
8/10/2017 9:59pm,
I still think your actual skill level is much more important than the hours you have spent to get there.

And I 100% agree with that point - this is not a substitution for skill, but more a record of the road travelled to get there. The Harvard guy could still suck ass, the SDSU guy could be the best worker in your firm - I still think records are nice to have. This is also a reason why belt systems exist - to provide a record of training and experience.

Thanks!

V/R

Myn

BackFistMonkey
8/10/2017 10:11pm,
I still think your actual skill level is much more important than the hours you have spent to get there.

For example you have spent 200 hours training Muay Thai under the best MT instructor on the planet, but have ZERO fights. How do you expect to train students to fight when you have never been in the ring as an amature or professional, instead just sparred under medium contact and done pad and bag work?

You can't, you just switched a reality/evidence based martial art with a faith based martial art and are starting down the path of bullshit.

I like the idea of logging your time. I don't like the idea of someone else looking at that log as anything other than a metric to gauge how quickly you learn.

Myn
8/10/2017 10:18pm,
For example you have spent 200 hours training Muay Thai under the best MT instructor on the planet, but have ZERO fights. How do you expect to train students to fight when you have never been in the ring as an amature or professional, instead just sparred under medium contact and done pad and bag work?

You can't, you just switched a reality/evidence based martial art with a faith based martial art and are starting down the path of bullshit.

I like the idea of logging your time. I don't like the idea of someone else looking at that log as anything other than a metric to gauge how quickly you learn.

Nobody in MT should teach without fights - this is why the very few places which officially certify Muay Thai instruction somewhat legitimately, (such as https://www.muaythai-institute.com/maemai ) require a prerequisite of 30 professional fights and 10 years of experience training muay thai before you can even take the highest level instructor certification course. This would be a CV and that's just about it - useful for the same things a CV is and useless for all of those things a CV is not useful for. It's not a substitute for skill, fights, experience, etc. but it has real potential as a tool to explain your martial arts training history and to examine it better yourself.

Great input as always!

V/R

Myn

Myn
8/11/2017 6:51am,
Does anyone have any propositions as to the potential form of a record like this?

Thanks!

V/R

Myn

Diesel_tke
8/11/2017 3:53pm,
My stick/knife fighting teacher required us to record the amount of round we did that were under certain conditions. For example, full contact stick vs full contact knife vs full contact espada y daga. And then we would further sub categorize if it was full contact vs sparring and then further if grappling was allowed or stand up only and if empty hand striking was allowed. So we had all these different categories and you had to have a certain amount of rounds before moving on to the next thing. Training time was irrelevant. You couldn't start training in the next thing unless you had a certain amount of round in something and you were competent in the rounds.

No belts, no certs, no cool shirts, no nifty titles. But lots of fun and bruises.

hometurphindia
8/14/2017 5:09am,
I am still not sure what this thread is about and what the certification is???

Michaelmma
8/15/2017 2:10pm,
Well what you can suggest to the instructor is to give you a certificate of witness. A signed document which states the time you spent in his school. Not a rank but more a validation of your training hours, months and or years there. Or you can make the document and ask him to fill in the time youve spend in his school. And ask him to sign it, many instructors and coaches are very bussy people. Some people i know give a kind of rank system they do, after 6 months mma level 1, after twelve level 2, and so on. So the level number is more a validation of experience in the school. Many options, just talk to your instructor many he is open for it.