PDA

View Full Version : Looking for help/insight on Submission Chains



Pages : [1] 2 3

Tramirezmma
3/08/2017 9:56pm,
Alrighty, so I want to get to the next level of grappling, and start looking towards that purple belt. One thing I'm pursuing in the pursuit of the next level of technique and BJJ knowledge, is the chaining of submissions together from different positions. I'm looking for advice on where I can go from certain chains I'm developing, and some ideas on chains I could be using in positions where I just don't really have one. Some of these chains I am also needing to alter for a pure BJJ game, as I'd always grappled for MMA before, and some of my chains go to finishes that are not legal at my belt level.

Mount: Armbar-bicep slicer- armbar

Side Control: Kimura- Straight Arm- Keylock- Keylock around the neck- Neck crank- Pillow choke

Head and Arm Control (Kesa gatame): Far leg armbar- far leg figure four armbar- far leg step on the wrist armbar- near leg keylock- near leg Ezekiel- near leg can opener- near leg neck crank- double branch both arms up- double branch one arm up one arm down.

Closed Guard (My preferred guard): Armbar- triangle- opposite armbar

Spider Guard (Still very not proficient here): If I can't lasso and then sweep, I end up trying to get sleeve/wrist control, and pull them into a triangle.

De La Riva (I am terrible here): All I have are sweeps at the moment, and not very confident sweeps as of yet.

X Guard (I like X Guard, the trick is getting a partner who lets me put them there lol): Still only sweeps for the most part. I can see where an amrbar might develop from sleeve control, but other than that I'm lost

Half Guard Top:Scorpion kneebar or regular kneebar or kimura. None of those have a chain yet.

Half Guard Bottom- Sweep game only so far. I remember being taught some kind of slicer from here a long time ago, but it's gone now. I can reach over for the toefold if folks get lazy on me.

Back Control- Dan Severn- Jaw Crank- Rear Naked (or) Chuck Norris- Armbar

That's about all I can think of. Feel free to add your own chains, dissect mine, offer suggestions or alternatives. It's been a while since we had a good, long technical grappling thread, I'm hoping this sparks discussion.

DCS
3/09/2017 8:05am,
While I look for some of the techniques you posted (BJJ nomenclature is weird) I'd like to point your lack of chokes is disturbing.

BKR
3/09/2017 12:07pm,
Alrighty, so I want to get to the next level of grappling, and start looking towards that purple belt. One thing I'm pursuing in the pursuit of the next level of technique and BJJ knowledge, is the chaining of submissions together from different positions. I'm looking for advice on where I can go from certain chains I'm developing, and some ideas on chains I could be using in positions where I just don't really have one. Some of these chains I am also needing to alter for a pure BJJ game, as I'd always grappled for MMA before, and some of my chains go to finishes that are not legal at my belt level.

Mount: Armbar-bicep slicer- armbar

Side Control: Kimura- Straight Arm- Keylock- Keylock around the neck- Neck crank- Pillow choke

Head and Arm Control (Kesa gatame): Far leg armbar- far leg figure four armbar- far leg step on the wrist armbar- near leg keylock- near leg Ezekiel- near leg can opener- near leg neck crank- double branch both arms up- double branch one arm up one arm down.

Closed Guard (My preferred guard): Armbar- triangle- opposite armbar

Spider Guard (Still very not proficient here): If I can't lasso and then sweep, I end up trying to get sleeve/wrist control, and pull them into a triangle.

De La Riva (I am terrible here): All I have are sweeps at the moment, and not very confident sweeps as of yet.

X Guard (I like X Guard, the trick is getting a partner who lets me put them there lol): Still only sweeps for the most part. I can see where an amrbar might develop from sleeve control, but other than that I'm lost

Half Guard Top:Scorpion kneebar or regular kneebar or kimura. None of those have a chain yet.

Half Guard Bottom- Sweep game only so far. I remember being taught some kind of slicer from here a long time ago, but it's gone now. I can reach over for the toefold if folks get lazy on me.

Back Control- Dan Severn- Jaw Crank- Rear Naked (or) Chuck Norris- Armbar

That's about all I can think of. Feel free to add your own chains, dissect mine, offer suggestions or alternatives. It's been a while since we had a good, long technical grappling thread, I'm hoping this sparks discussion.

I've been shown a LOT, drilled a lot, but can't really help much with names and such, plus, I can't and probably won't ever be able to remember all the stuff I've trained. My instructor is huge on chaining stuff together, he never teaches single stuff unless it's to people who are at the level of "how do armbar".

Like DCS said, lack of chokes is obvious in your lists, although there are a few. Collar chokes are good, but if you are going no-gi mostly...

ChenPengFi
3/09/2017 12:35pm,
What I notice are dead end chains and a lack of options.
Have you tried mind maps?

When I get introduced to new positions/techniques it often is done with options in mind.
The opponent can typically move in a few directions and the responses come from that.
From full guard there are tons of options and you list it as a favorite; yet only one series?
That seems like an incomplete way to view things.

BKR
3/09/2017 12:41pm,
What I notice are dead end chains and a lack of options.
Have you tried mind maps?

When I get introduced to new positions/techniques it often is done with options in mind.
The opponent can typically move in a few directions and the responses come from that.
From full guard there are tons of options and you list it as a favorite; yet only one series?
That seems like an incomplete way to view things.

Good points. Reminds me that how to move between positions, and how opponent reacts to pressure and movement are very important to study and practice.

You can do that in the context of chains, which is what my instructor does. It's all action reaction, anticipation, and training your body/mind to respond to what happens.

It works the same way in Judo standing up (throwing), which is why I tend to focus a lot on action reaction on top of fundamental posture/grip/movement patterns (chains) that result from how the body naturally resets it's balance when disturbed. You can move purposefully once you have those patterns down, from one thing to another to another.

Raycetpfl
3/09/2017 1:11pm,
Choke>armbar>choke>armbar>choke

Armbar>choke>armbar>choke

Shoulder lock> armbar>shoulder lock

Rear naked> ezeikel>armbar

Rnc>bow choke> armbar>Rayce-Mura

Tramirezmma
3/09/2017 8:00pm,
What I notice are dead end chains and a lack of options.
Have you tried mind maps?

When I get introduced to new positions/techniques it often is done with options in mind.
The opponent can typically move in a few directions and the responses come from that.
From full guard there are tons of options and you list it as a favorite; yet only one series?
That seems like an incomplete way to view things.

Can you expand on mind maps?

Yeah, I've got a few different setups from different hooks in the full guard, but my finishes all pretty much follow that chain.

Tramirezmma
3/09/2017 8:02pm,
Good points. Reminds me that how to move between positions, and how opponent reacts to pressure and movement are very important to study and practice.

You can do that in the context of chains, which is what my instructor does. It's all action reaction, anticipation, and training your body/mind to respond to what happens.

It works the same way in Judo standing up (throwing), which is why I tend to focus a lot on action reaction on top of fundamental posture/grip/movement patterns (chains) that result from how the body naturally resets it's balance when disturbed. You can move purposefully once you have those patterns down, from one thing to another to another.

BKR, I wouldn't mind insight on what to chain Tai Otosh with, that's my money throw, and I'd like a transition off of a failure. Often times if that doesn't work I just pummel for double unders and go for the outside trip.

Tramirezmma
3/09/2017 8:05pm,
Choke>armbar>choke>armbar>choke

Armbar>choke>armbar>choke

Shoulder lock> armbar>shoulder lock

Rear naked> ezeikel>armbar

Rnc>bow choke> armbar>Rayce-Mura

By choke I take it you mean collar choke? I'm **** at those right now, any tips on legit threatening and finishing with it?

ChenPengFi
3/09/2017 9:15pm,
Can you expand on mind maps?

Yeah, I've got a few different setups from different hooks in the full guard, but my finishes all pretty much follow that chain.


Stuff like this:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1a/2a/2c/1a2a2c75e99934362061bff1b17ec636.jpg

BKR
3/09/2017 10:21pm,
BKR, I wouldn't mind insight on what to chain Tai Otosh with, that's my money throw, and I'd like a transition off of a failure. Often times if that doesn't work I just pummel for double unders and go for the outside trip.

Ok will do. Will be gi oriented though. Chilling now.

Raycetpfl
3/10/2017 12:51am,
By choke I take it you mean collar choke? I'm **** at those right now, any tips on legit threatening and finishing with it?

It's all in the wrist. I will make some technique videos tomorrow or so.

DCS
3/10/2017 9:42am,
Stuff like this:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1a/2a/2c/1a2a2c75e99934362061bff1b17ec636.jpg

People overthink too much.

For Travis:
X-Pass to KOB to, depending of partner's reaction, near side armbar - Darce - N/S Guillotine.

BKR
3/10/2017 12:11pm,
People overthink too much.

For Travis:
X-Pass to KOB to, depending of partner's reaction, near side armbar - Darce - N/S Guillotine.

These sorts of things leave out how you get into position, but are maybe useful as one tool for understanding/visualizing the process. What separates the goats from the sheep is how you control and move to get into position.

What's the most frustrating part of rolling with somebody good ? It's how you are totally helpless most of the time, no matter what you do. The submission is the icing on the cake.

BKR
3/10/2017 12:12pm,
It's all in the wrist. I will make some technique videos tomorrow or so.

What ? I thought it was in how mightily you haul on the collar.......

BKR
3/10/2017 12:39pm,
So, Tai Otoshi.

One, Travis, I find it interesting that's your go-to throw. Was that no-gi in MMA?

Anyway, techniques to "chain" with Tai Otoshi. First option is movement, then movement with other techniques as combination, which are to induce more movement or reaction in your opponent. I'll put in specific throws since you asked about techniques. Whole books have been written on Tai Otoshi, and the...theory of angles and throwing and directions of weakness in posture is yet another subject.
In a nutshell:
1.) Determine relative stance/posture.
You are both in a right-foot forward stance (or both in left foot forward stance, reverse it all, LOL)
Kouchi Gari versus his lead leg, he steps back, you do Tai Otoshi (I'm leaving out movement, gripping, etc)
Hiza Guruma or Sasae Tsurikomi Ashi verses his left (trailing) leg. Will require you to circle him hard to your right (clockwise), attack his left leg with HG or STKA, then Tai Otoshi against his right leg.

You are in right foot forward, he is in left foot forward stance
Ouchi Gari, De Ashi Barai or Kosoto Gari to the lead leg. You have to move his lead leg out of the way one way or the other. Inside gripping position on the lapel is preferred but not required.

So, some chains just written down.
1.) Kouchi Gari, Tai Otoshi
2.) Kouchi Gari, Tai Otoshi, Tai Otoshi, Tai Otoshi until someone falls down. Keep stepping across, which is in fact the "step across Tai Otoshi drill".
3.) Kouchi Gari, Ouchi Gari, Tai Otoshi
4.) Uchi Mata, Tai Otoshi
5.) Kouchi Gari, Tai Otoshi, Uchi Mata (requires serious balance and agility)
6.) Ouchi Gari, Tai Otoshi
7.) Ashi Barai (footsweep), Tai Otoshi

See the theme ? Foot techniques set up the bigger throw (Tai Otoshi).

I just remembered that Judoka UK did a piece on Tai Otoshi, so has saved me massive amounts of work, LOL !
http://thedifficultway.blogspot.com/2011/05/tai-otoshi.html