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Wounded Ronin
2/24/2017 9:07pm,
So apparently Wayne LaPierre just told CPAC attendees that "the left" want to purge them.



"The left's message is absolutely clear. They want revenge, you've got to be punished," Lapierre said. "They say you're what's wrong with America and now you've got to be purged."

He said many on the extreme left "literally hate everything America stands for" and "are willing to use violence against us."


Source: http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/nra-head-warns-violence-anti-trump-protesters-n725376

WTF?

In the first place, I guess I don't know exactly what he means by "the left" given the crazy stuff he follows it with, but I'd argue that rural guys with rifles are in very little danger from, say, urban women who wear pink hats. I mean most urban people don't even own guns, and they are often sedentary and physically weak, so how could they physically threaten anyone? They also lack political power at this time so I fail to see how they could purge anything but last night's spoiled dinner.

But secondly, what the hell is he doing? Not only are his statements damaging to the national unity of the United States, but he is pretty much setting the stage for ongoing political conflicts over gun control. He is making it into a hyper partisan issue, moreso than it already was.

If he really cared about the long term future of gun rights in the US he should instead reach out to liberals and basically get them interested in shooting. That would be the best way to make debate over guns rational and neutralize the wedge issue aspect.

But no, he doubles down on the wedge issue, doubles down on a diminishing demographic, and I feel greatly undermines long term gun rights. All he had to do was do the right thing and try to make firearms a positive experience for more people if he really wanted to protect the 2nd amendment. I feel that what he has done is unethical and irresponsible.

Cassius
2/24/2017 9:44pm,
In the long term, I agree with you. In the short term, this is a GOP-heavy event and both sides are heavily invested in hyper partisan rhetoric to inflame their respective bases. And sadly, as a Maryland resident, I have to say that the left here really does seem to want to make firearms enthusiasts feel about as welcome as genital herpes.

I rarely advise ignorance as a path to happiness, but I am starting to believe that this might be the way to go when it comes to national politics.

Ming Loyalist
2/25/2017 10:09am,
And sadly, as a Maryland resident, I have to say that the left here really does seem to want to make firearms enthusiasts feel about as welcome as genital herpes.

the attitudes and "arguments" that i hear from the left in terms of firearms legislation has caused me to re-examine the larger policies of both sides and come to the conclusion that both parties are full of ****, and neither is interested in meaningful change, but rather to reinforce the prejudices already in existence among their bases.

Cassius
2/25/2017 10:53am,
the attitudes and "arguments" that i hear from the left in terms of firearms legislation has caused me to re-examine the larger policies of both sides and come to the conclusion that both parties are full of ****, and neither is interested in meaningful change, but rather to reinforce the prejudices already in existence among their bases.I came to a similar conclusion in 2012. It is pretty disheartening and cynical, but that doesn't stop it from being the truth.

BKR
2/25/2017 10:58am,
Man has to make s living...

Wounded Ronin
2/25/2017 11:02am,
the attitudes and "arguments" that i hear from the left in terms of firearms legislation has caused me to re-examine the larger policies of both sides and come to the conclusion that both parties are full of ****, and neither is interested in meaningful change, but rather to reinforce the prejudices already in existence among their bases.

I'm beginning to think this is the inevitable conclusion.

Last night I was considering writing LaPierre a letter, but then realized he either knows what he's doing (see above), or else he actually believes this stuff and then what's the point of communicating anything to him?

Cassius
2/25/2017 11:41am,
I certainly wish we as a culture had chosen limited federal government and the ability to easily vote with our feet, but sadly we went with mutually assured destruction instead.

Ming Loyalist
2/25/2017 12:18pm,
I'm beginning to think this is the inevitable conclusion.

Last night I was considering writing LaPierre a letter, but then realized he either knows what he's doing (see above), or else he actually believes this stuff and then what's the point of communicating anything to him?

i joined NY State Rifle and Pistol Association once i saw that they had filed lawsuits over some of the more absurd NY and NYC firearms laws, and i wanted to support them in such action. once i started getting their newsletters i decided to not renew due to inflammatory speech, and a whole bunch of christian religious stuff that has no place in a group dedicated to *firearms rights*. i chose not to join the NRA over similar issues with their message.

it's too bad, as i think they would get more support by staying on topic, and i doubt their religious and ultra-conservative members would abandon them over not mentioning god all the time.

i still give to other firearms rights groups, but it sucks to have to not support the big ones.

Wounded Ronin
2/27/2017 8:21pm,
i joined NY State Rifle and Pistol Association once i saw that they had filed lawsuits over some of the more absurd NY and NYC firearms laws, and i wanted to support them in such action. once i started getting their newsletters i decided to not renew due to inflammatory speech, and a whole bunch of christian religious stuff that has no place in a group dedicated to *firearms rights*. i chose not to join the NRA over similar issues with their message.

it's too bad, as i think they would get more support by staying on topic, and i doubt their religious and ultra-conservative members would abandon them over not mentioning god all the time.

i still give to other firearms rights groups, but it sucks to have to not support the big ones.

Maybe it's time to start a riflery group or club geared towards center leftists, leftist females, or simply support groups like Pink Pistols. In the long run that might be the best way to make 2A a non partisan issue.

Of course most leftist rifle experts might be politically incorrect in the US, but maybe you could have the Pavlichenko Female Empowerment Rifle Club or something like that, since Pavlichenko is best known for shooting nazis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Pavlichenko

http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/561919d39dd7cc02308b5837-872-602/screen%20shot%202015-10-10%20at%209.59.11%20am.png

I actually think there's a lot you could hook hippies or leftists on when it comes to rifles. Make it all about the meditative aspects of shooting, participation in nature, and cultivating cool equanimity in your endeavors.

EDIT: Damn, I'm starting to get the urge to go out into the middle of desert with my AR and experiment with seated meditation and shooting, i.e. substituting perhaps ten or fifteen minutes of an attempt at "shooting meditation" for the more typical walking meditation done between sitting meditation sessions.

Cassius
2/27/2017 9:33pm,
I'm not sure I'm comfortable allying with any -ists these days. Joking aside, I'm not even sure that it is possible with the DNC annually reaffirming gun control as a pillar of its faith. Based on who they elected chair it appears to be continuing down the path of radical progressivism mixed with DC inbreeding but with a saucy "let's talk to white people about jobs in a patronizing manner" twist.

Ultimately anyone who supports individual liberties and generally leaving people the **** alone to be who they want to be is an ally of mine, but I'm getting pretty sick of both sides shouting at each other like a bunch of asshole children. If I wanted to be exposed to zealotry and rhetoric I would become some kind of religious fundamentalist.

Wounded Ronin
2/27/2017 10:25pm,
I'm not sure I'm comfortable allying with any -ists these days. Joking aside, I'm not even sure that it is possible with the DNC annually reaffirming gun control as a pillar of its faith. Based on who they elected chair it appears to be continuing down the path of radical progressivism mixed with DC inbreeding but with a saucy "let's talk to white people about jobs in a patronizing manner" twist.

Ultimately anyone who supports individual liberties and generally leaving people the **** alone to be who they want to be is an ally of mine, but I'm getting pretty sick of both sides shouting at each other like a bunch of asshole children. If I wanted to be exposed to zealotry and rhetoric I would become some kind of religious fundamentalist.

Well see, this is the thing. Every time the Democratic party thinks they can win on gun control (i.e. Clinton AWB, and the sit in last year) it seems to blow up in their faces.

The party establishment was already repudiated in various ways by Democratic or Democratic leaning voters for sticking to the conventional wisdom and running Hillary. Likewise, where is the evidence that gun control as an issue helps them more than hurts them? It certainly didn't get their base out, in spite of their crazy sit in of the rich and powerful, which if you think about it was a big political investment for them.

The only reason that gun control riles anyone on the left up is because it's an abstract issue for most. If you just gradually got people to try out shooting in a nonthreatening and validating environment, the political value of gun control would dissolve.

Hell I grew up in New York City but got into shooting years later because almost by chance I had some positive but limited experiences with it in upstate New York. And once you start shooting it takes only mediocre to average intelligence to realize there's nothing inherently magical about an AR 15.


EDIT:

A little bit of memory lane:



Clinton, who spoke little about gun control during her 2008 presidential campaign, hammered her Democratic opponent, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, for favoring a 2005 law shielding gun manufacturers from liability for the misuse of firearms — and for voting against the 1993 Brady Bill that required federal background checks for gun purchases and mandated a waiting period for those sales.

In the first Democratic debate, when asked whether Sanders was tough enough on guns, Clinton quickly responded, “No, not at all.”

“It’s time the entire country stood up against the NRA,” she said. “The majority of our country supports background checks, and even the majority of gun owners do.”


From: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/why-democrats-are-convinced-they-can-run-and-win-on-gun-control-this-year/2016/06/23/ed7b9a6a-395c-11e6-8f7c-d4c723a2becb_story.html?utm_term=.c0b75893fddf

LOL at her opportunistic flip flopping. In combination with other factors, it blew up in her face like a beretta 92FS firing a massively overcharged handload. ;)

EDIT 2:

I forgot to say, I chuckled at your saucy twist comment.

Wounded Ronin
2/27/2017 10:52pm,
See, so, speaking of cultural approaches to gun control, I just sent the following email to some Nevada elected officials for a piece of legislation that would apparently affect open carry. I deleted nearly all the default text that the NRA supplied and pretty much wrote a new email.



Please oppose Senate Bill 115 which would expand the list of places firearms are prohibited from being carried and kept in vehicles to include public libraries.

Open carry is very much cultural in Nevada. The other day, I was getting some coffee in Pahrump at the Subway in the WalMart and an old man walked in open carrying to get a sandwich. It wasn't scary or socially inappropriate. He just seemed like a nice old man and I sat there enjoying my coffee. No one was bothered.

So it doesn't really make sense to criminalize local cultural behaviors. In fact to do so would be cultural oppression or imperialism. I am not sure why you would want to legally mandate urban California culture in a place (Nevada) where openly carried firearms are culturally neutral and inherently non-threatening.


When talking to Democrats and liberals, I know that it's best to frame gun control as an issue of cultural imperialism. In the past, in a face to face conversation, I actually explained to someone how there are parallels between gun control and colonialist cultural oppression where colonial powers outlawed traditional culture and tried to forcibly raise kids within a different culture. I explained how firearms have to do with a sense of connection to ancestors especially in military families, how they can relate to stewardship of nature in families who hunt, and how firearms can represent a rite of passage and means of practicing adult responsibilities in some families. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's all framing. If people are receptive to the idea of colonialism, or cultural imperialism, I believe it's better to bring it that way, than just rehashing a clichéd political argument everyone's heard before.

Ming Loyalist
2/27/2017 11:21pm,
Maybe it's time to start a riflery group or club geared towards center leftists, leftist females, or simply support groups like Pink Pistols. In the long run that might be the best way to make 2A a non partisan issue.

http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/

Pship Destroyer
2/27/2017 11:30pm,
i joined NY State Rifle and Pistol Association once i saw that they had filed lawsuits over some of the more absurd NY and NYC firearms laws, and i wanted to support them in such action. once i started getting their newsletters i decided to not renew due to inflammatory speech, and a whole bunch of christian religious stuff that has no place in a group dedicated to *firearms rights*. i chose not to join the NRA over similar issues with their message.

it's too bad, as i think they would get more support by staying on topic, and i doubt their religious and ultra-conservative members would abandon them over not mentioning god all the time.

i still give to other firearms rights groups, but it sucks to have to not support the big ones.

I left the NRA 20 years ago and never looked back.

Never mistake a lobbying group as rational, helpful, or trustworthy. What they say is all about money, not reason or patriotism. The fiery rhetoric is nothing new, and Wayne LaPierre is a huge ***** compared to the past.

The NRA's mummified god-emperor Charleton Heston is still daring people to take the musket from his dead hands from beyond the grave. Wayne LaPierre is basically begging for money using scare tactics.

That's the difference between Charlton Heston and Wayne LaPierre and between most 2nd Amendment supporters and the NRA. From my cold dead hands, you bastards. And no, I do not need a subscription to your newsletter, either. Go scare some other chump.

Pship Destroyer
2/27/2017 11:39pm,
In the first place, I guess I don't know exactly what he means by "the left" given the crazy stuff he follows it with, but I'd argue that rural guys with rifles are in very little danger from, say, urban women who wear pink hats. I mean most urban people don't even own guns, and they are often sedentary and physically weak, so how could they physically threaten anyone? They also lack political power at this time so I fail to see how they could purge anything but last night's spoiled dinner.


In this context, the "left" means anybody who doesn't give money to the NRA.



But secondly, what the hell is he doing? Not only are his statements damaging to the national unity of the United States, but he is pretty much setting the stage for ongoing political conflicts over gun control. He is making it into a hyper partisan issue, moreso than it already was.


The stage has been set for a while. He's the guy in the stands trying to sell you beer and pretzels.



If he really cared about the long term future of gun rights in the US he should instead reach out to liberals and basically get them interested in shooting. That would be the best way to make debate over guns rational and neutralize the wedge issue aspect.


I'm sure liberal people like guns too, but some of them want to dismantle conservative-protected flexible gun control that has subsisted since 18th century US law. They run into trouble, though, when they meet the gun lobby, and that's not always a good thing. I'd say it has a mixed history. For every decent thing the NRA has done, there are things like their despicable actions after Columbine, Sandy Hook...and a list of others I don't have the heart to write.



But no, he doubles down on the wedge issue, doubles down on a diminishing demographic, and I feel greatly undermines long term gun rights. All he had to do was do the right thing and try to make firearms a positive experience for more people if he really wanted to protect the 2nd amendment. I feel that what he has done is unethical and irresponsible.

He's not interested in gun rights or protecting the 2nd amendment. For him it's dollar bills, ya'll. He's a hustler.

You want to promote gun rights and safe gun ownership? Save your NRA tithe, and take someone to the range for the first time.

Raycetpfl
2/27/2017 11:59pm,
http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/

I read their positions on things. They basically have my views on things. I also dont really like that person to person sales don't need a background check. It's kind of stupid to require a background check at a dealer if its that easy to get around.