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itwasntme
2/03/2017 2:34pm,
http://www.npr.org/2017/02/02/513126985/house-votes-to-overturn-obama-rule-restricting-gun-sales-to-mentally-ill

people forget the constitution was written before we had our current knowledge base of mental illnesses.

ChenPengFi
2/03/2017 2:39pm,
This is true, and objectionable:


"It assumes that simply because an individual suffers from a mental condition, that individual is unfit to exercise his or her Second Amendment rights."

itwasntme
2/03/2017 2:49pm,
This is true, and objectionable:

are you saying the assumption is true or that you agree? i don't think all mentally ill people should be restricted nor should all mentally ill be allowed to own.

i would just like to see them get evaluated by a psychologist and cleared before issuance of the purchase permit.

Cassius
2/03/2017 3:18pm,
are you saying the assumption is true or that you agree? i don't think all mentally ill people should be restricted nor should all mentally ill be allowed to own.

i would just like to see them get evaluated by a psychologist and cleared before issuance of the purchase permit.While your motivations are noble, statistics do not work in your favor. The vast majority of people with mental health issues are nonviolent. This is a pretty clear overreach of federal authority. Anytime the ACLU and NRA are in agreement, chances are pretty good that something messed up is happening. Bottom line: this regulation was going to get abused badly at some point. While it was not high on my personal priority list for 2A rights, I am glad it is gone.

itwasntme
2/03/2017 3:26pm,
The vast majority of people with mental health issues are nonviolent.

this is why i imagined it wouldn't be hard for the non-violent, mentally ill to get cleared. but i guess it would depend on their access to mental healthcare at the time. and then i guess they'd have to do that every time and that would be ostracizing the majority. i wasn't ready for the day at the time of morning i heard this lol.

ChenPengFi
2/03/2017 3:33pm,
are you saying the assumption is true or that you agree? i don't think all mentally ill people should be restricted nor should all mentally ill be allowed to own.

i would just like to see them get evaluated by a psychologist and cleared before issuance of the purchase permit.



The quote is true.
That assumption is false.

I am against it on multiple levels, medical privacy being a big one for me.
Due process/burden of proof is another.
Those two are at odds; it's difficult to have due process while respecting privacy concerns.
Why should the burden rest on the citizen?


I agree with Cassius completely as well.

itwasntme
2/03/2017 3:44pm,
The quote is true.
That assumption is false.

I am against it on multiple levels, medical privacy being a big one for me.
Due process/burden of proof is another.
Those two are at odds; it's difficult to have due process while respecting privacy concerns.
Why should the burden rest on the citizen?


I agree with Cassius completely as well.

what, you don't think gun dealers should have the same authority as pharmacists?

"sir, you can't purchase this pistol until your chlamydia clears up."

no, you both have good points. i clearly hadn't thought this through.

Cassius
2/03/2017 4:32pm,
I would also like to point out that anyone who sells firearms to anyone has an ethical obligation (and in certain cases a legal one) to refuse to sell to anyone who the salesperson thinks will misuse them. The best insurance for us is to give our business to stores with a history of ethics and alert sales reps. And in cases where there is criminal negligence or malfeasance, take appropriate measures to prosecute responsible parties.

And have long wait periods for gun, especially those of us with many of them. Because when a person like that goes, they storm out the door RIGHT PAST THEIR GUN SAFE to purchase a new one to go all Falling Down with. Or to use responsibly at the range. For evil!

Devil
2/03/2017 4:46pm,
are you saying the assumption is true or that you agree? i don't think all mentally ill people should be restricted nor should all mentally ill be allowed to own.

i would just like to see them get evaluated by a psychologist and cleared before issuance of the purchase permit.

Come on, dude. Getting evaluated by a psychologist means next to nothing. Bunch of fucking snake oil salesmen. You think Ted Bundy couldn't have passed a psychological evaluation? Sheeeeiiit. They can't just be "cleared." That's a fantasy. That's like this whole stupid concept of trying to vet Muslim immigrants to make sure they won't kill a bunch of Americans. It's worthless. Sure a few folks are so crazy they can't hide it. Like Pship. But for most people, if they want to keep something a secret, it's going to stay a secret. And it's a myth to think you have to be mentally ill to kill a bunch of people.

itwasntme
2/03/2017 4:52pm,
Come on, dude. Getting evaluated by a psychologist means next to nothing. Bunch of fucking snake oil salesmen. You think Ted Bundy couldn't have passed a psychological evaluation? Sheeeeiiit. They can't just be "cleared." That's a fantasy. That's like this whole stupid concept of trying to vet Muslim immigrants to make sure they won't kill a bunch of Americans. It's worthless. Sure a few folks are so crazy they can't hide it. Like Pship. But for most people, if they want to keep something a secret, it's going to stay a secret. And it's a myth to think you have to be mentally ill to kill a bunch of people.

stop making sense before he buys a gun.

Bneterasedmynam
2/03/2017 5:04pm,
So then I wonder how long before they let non-violent offenders buy guns.

Raycetpfl
2/03/2017 5:13pm,
While your motivations are noble, statistics do not work in your favor. The vast majority of people with mental health issues are nonviolent. This is a pretty clear overreach of federal authority. Anytime the ACLU and NRA are in agreement, chances are pretty good that something messed up is happening. Bottom line: this regulation was going to get abused badly at some point. While it was not high on my personal priority list for 2A rights, I am glad it is gone.

Unfortunately you can't assume someone is dangerous just because they are different...... even though there are tons of Krav/Mall Ninja dipshits I actually don't want to have guns..... it is their right to have them and I begrudgingly support their rights.

itwasntme
2/03/2017 6:53pm,
So then I wonder how long before they let non-violent offenders buy guns.

as long as that doesn't extend to sex offenders.

Cassius
2/03/2017 7:00pm,
Personally I don't have a problem with reformed ex cons owning firearms. What I have a problem with is our penal system. We spend all this money throwing people in jail (often for stupid reasons) and suck rancor dick at actually reforming them. Or keeping them out of society permanently if they are unwilling or unable to be reformed.

itwasntme
2/03/2017 7:13pm,
Personally I don't have a problem with reformed ex cons owning firearms. What I have a problem with is our penal system. We spend all this money throwing people in jail (often for stupid reasons) and suck rancor dick at actually reforming them. Or keeping them out of society permanently if they are unwilling or unable to be reformed.

two strike rule across the board for violent offenders. no more privatized jails, or at least some neutral 3rd party to provide oversight for rehab programs among other things.

BKR
2/03/2017 7:25pm,
Personally I don't have a problem with reformed ex cons owning firearms. What I have a problem with is our penal system. We spend all this money throwing people in jail (often for stupid reasons) and suck rancor dick at actually reforming them. Or keeping them out of society permanently if they are unwilling or unable to be reformed.

Different states have different rules for who can legally possess firearms after being convicted of a felony (and doing all their time/parole/probation). Some I think are across the board banned, others, such as Idaho, have a list of offenses that permanently disqualify convicted felons from owning firearms.

Then there are Federal laws. For example, if you get convicted or plead guilty to misdemeanor domestic battery, you lose your gun rights at the federal level...