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Bar Humbug
12/01/2016 8:36pm,
Recently started Freestyle Wrestling, really enjoy it and I want to keep it up. However I am encountering an issue with drilling/sparring to do with the instincts/muscle memory (yes I know that isn't a real thing, I'm using the colloquial) that Judo has instilled in me.

Example, today we were practicing a particular takedown, similar to a Tani Otoshi (sorry don't know the actual name). For the life of me, I kept on reverting back to doing a Tani Otoshi, even when actively attempting to not do so. This is more prevalent in sparring, moving in for hip/shoulder throws and wasting the time and effort I've spent on working Wrestling specific takedowns just on instinctive actions.

My question is how have members gone about dealing with and overcoming this, is this simply one of those 'sick it and see' moments where I should just grind it out until it clicks, or is there something you would advise I do/practice/keep in mind while sparring to help prevent falling back on old practice.

Omega Supreme
12/01/2016 8:48pm,
I really don't understand what your problem actually is. Are you telling me that the Tani Otoshi, or back trip wasn't the correct technique?

xjej
12/01/2016 9:35pm,
Recently started Freestyle Wrestling, really enjoy it and I want to keep it up. However I am encountering an issue with drilling/sparring to do with the instincts/muscle memory (yes I know that isn't a real thing, I'm using the colloquial) that Judo has instilled in me.

Example, today we were practicing a particular takedown, similar to a Tani Otoshi (sorry don't know the actual name). For the life of me, I kept on reverting back to doing a Tani Otoshi, even when actively attempting to not do so. This is more prevalent in sparring, moving in for hip/shoulder throws and wasting the time and effort I've spent on working Wrestling specific takedowns just on instinctive actions.

My question is how have members gone about dealing with and overcoming this, is this simply one of those 'sick it and see' moments where I should just grind it out until it clicks, or is there something you would advise I do/practice/keep in mind while sparring to help prevent falling back on old practice.

You probably just gonna have to grind it untill developing a different motor pattern (if the two tecniques are actually that different)
The only issue may be about automatically exectuing one rather than the other in a similar situation, that usually requires some specifical "tuning".

DCS
12/02/2016 3:20am,
My question is how have members gone about dealing with and overcoming this, is this simply one of those 'sick it and see' moments where I should just grind it out until it clicks, or is there something you would advise I do/practice/keep in mind while sparring to help prevent falling back on old practice.

Low intensity sparring, kakari and yaku soku geiko.

Bar Humbug
12/02/2016 10:51am,
I really don't understand what your problem actually is. Are you telling me that the Tani Otoshi, or back trip wasn't the correct technique?

yeah sorry, didn't really explain that well. The technique I used in my example wasn't Tani Otoshi, but it was similar in certain mechanics (i.e. T stance) that 'instinct' took over in terms of grip position (I would use a collar grip instead of the gut-wrench grip that we were practicing) or stick my leg out and use it for the break fall like a Tani Otoshi instead of tapping the back of Uke's leg with my knee to get the initial breaking of balance.

Away from the example, I'm asking how people have instructed/dealt with being receptive to training new techniques when they have a trained reaction

Bar Humbug
12/02/2016 10:52am,
You probably just gonna have to grind it untill developing a different motor pattern (if the two tecniques are actually that different)
The only issue may be about automatically exectuing one rather than the other in a similar situation, that usually requires some specifical "tuning".


Yeah, that seems like the thing people are getting at, cheers

BKR
12/02/2016 12:14pm,
Recently started Freestyle Wrestling, really enjoy it and I want to keep it up. However I am encountering an issue with drilling/sparring to do with the instincts/muscle memory (yes I know that isn't a real thing, I'm using the colloquial) that Judo has instilled in me.

Example, today we were practicing a particular takedown, similar to a Tani Otoshi (sorry don't know the actual name). For the life of me, I kept on reverting back to doing a Tani Otoshi, even when actively attempting to not do so. This is more prevalent in sparring, moving in for hip/shoulder throws and wasting the time and effort I've spent on working Wrestling specific takedowns just on instinctive actions.

My question is how have members gone about dealing with and overcoming this, is this simply one of those 'sick it and see' moments where I should just grind it out until it clicks, or is there something you would advise I do/practice/keep in mind while sparring to help prevent falling back on old practice.

When I was training free style and folkstyle,a fter 20+years in Judo, it didn't bother me either way. All the throws/takedowns I knew from judo were OK in Freestyle, most were OK in folkstyle (schoolboy/high school rules).

BKR
12/02/2016 12:17pm,
yeah sorry, didn't really explain that well. The technique I used in my example wasn't Tani Otoshi, but it was similar in certain mechanics (i.e. T stance) that 'instinct' took over in terms of grip position (I would use a collar grip instead of the gut-wrench grip that we were practicing) or stick my leg out and use it for the break fall like a Tani Otoshi instead of tapping the back of Uke's leg with my knee to get the initial breaking of balance.

Away from the example, I'm asking how people have instructed/dealt with being receptive to training new techniques when they have a trained reaction

Those are variations on the entry or execution of Tani Otoshi, to some degree, or a blending of Tani Otoshi and Dake Wakare.

As far as learning new stuff, it's the same if it's Judo, Freestyle, BJJ,or whatever, you just have to drill it 'til you kill it, then up the intensity slowly until you have it down while sparring/rolling/randori/competition.

How long have you been doing Judo?

Bar Humbug
12/02/2016 1:03pm,
Those are variations on the entry or execution of Tani Otoshi, to some degree, or a blending of Tani Otoshi and Dake Wakare.

As far as learning new stuff, it's the same if it's Judo, Freestyle, BJJ,or whatever, you just have to drill it 'til you kill it, then up the intensity slowly until you have it down while sparring/rolling/randori/competition.

How long have you been doing Judo?

Sweet, will do. Been doing Judo for 4 years now, its great how I still have no idea whats happening half the time

Omega Supreme
12/02/2016 1:05pm,
yeah sorry, didn't really explain that well. The technique I used in my example wasn't Tani Otoshi, but it was similar in certain mechanics (i.e. T stance) that 'instinct' took over in terms of grip position (I would use a collar grip instead of the gut-wrench grip that we were practicing) or stick my leg out and use it for the break fall like a Tani Otoshi instead of tapping the back of Uke's leg with my knee to get the initial breaking of balance.

Away from the example, I'm asking how people have instructed/dealt with being receptive to training new techniques when they have a trained reaction

Yeah, I'm going with grind it out.

BKR
12/02/2016 1:58pm,
Sweet, will do. Been doing Judo for 4 years now, its great how I still have no idea whats happening half the time

Even if you have been doing Judo multiple days per week in an ideal setting (great teachers/coaches, lots of training partners, non-serious injuries, and access to tournaments), 4 years isn't very long, so don't be surprised.

It is Fake
12/02/2016 2:30pm,
IMO, as you keep working, you'll learn which one works best in different scenarios. Eventually, in some cases you'll do Judo and others you'll do freestyle wrestling. You force yourself to do what's being taught and then let it flow when you are sparring.

So, I agree with those who said "grind it out," just giving my small perspective.