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View Full Version : Okay, opinion thread, why do I have a problem with this and what is your opinion



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Omega Supreme
11/23/2016 3:12pm,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JibDGgJz0nI&feature=youtu.be

So I came across this. While I know a lot of schools are different and they emphasize certain things and I know this is not meant to be a tutorial but I am not sure if I agree with many of the techniques here.

1. *Tongue and cheek: This is why BJJ guys should not teach falls or throws
2. While I agree that white belts should learn to sprawl but I am not sure I like those sprawls
3. Is that how you guys show how to break the guard?
4. I am not sure if the "professor" really understands the mount reversal. Maybe I am being too technical for white belt level.
5. Why didn't they show how to take the back?

ghost55
11/23/2016 3:24pm,
Somehow I suspect that the only blackbelt that instructor actually has is in MCMAP...

ermghoti
11/23/2016 3:33pm,
2. While I agree that white belts should learn to sprawl but I am not sure I like those sprawls

We don't dive like that, the hip reaches the ground with or just after the hands. It should be noted we have a wrestler doing a lot of the sprawl technique.


3. Is that how you guys show how to break the guard?

It's been presented to me. I've never had it work well.


5. Why didn't they show how to take the back?

That's an odd omission. RNC and bow and arrow are pretty fundamental finishes, no?

NeilG
11/23/2016 4:11pm,
If you're going to get thrown into a forward roll, your legs are doing most of the work of the breakfall. So from a judo guy's pov, learning to get up with bent legs like that just builds bad habits for ukemi. Unless there's some other BJJ oriented point to that drill I don't understand...

The whole thing is so perfunctory as to be useless. May as well have made a bullet list with a note saying "find someone better than me to teach you these things".

BKR
11/23/2016 4:25pm,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JibDGgJz0nI&feature=youtu.be

So I came across this. While I know a lot of schools are different and they emphasize certain things and I know this is not meant to be a tutorial but I am not sure if I agree with many of the techniques here.

1. *Tongue and cheek: This is why BJJ guys should not teach falls or throws
2. While I agree that white belts should learn to sprawl but I am not sure I like those sprawls
3. Is that how you guys show how to break the guard?
4. I am not sure if the "professor" really understands the mount reversal. Maybe I am being too technical for white belt level.
5. Why didn't they show how to take the back?

1.) Falling...well, those were really, really, bad ushiro ukemi (back falls), as you probably noticed. The zempo kaiten ukemi were OK, but were of the "ninja" style with the bent leg, designed to stand up from a soft roll. Not really useful taking a hard flat fall.
2.) If a white or yellow belt level O Goshi/Tsuri Goshi is OK for a purple belt to demo, so be it...
3.) Sprawling: Not me area of expertise, however, for a white belt the demo was OK.
4.) Breaking guard sucks, especially if you are small and the guy on bottom is strong as ****. It seems to me to be a very "technical" type of thing, not easily done against a reasonably skilled opponent. Hence, I avoid closed guard, LOl!
5.) Mount reversal: Well, what he shows can work...
6.) Taking back: I agree, that would seem to me to be a key component of BJJ/ground grappling in general.

WFMurphyPhD
11/23/2016 4:42pm,
I only watched the first five minutes.
Breakfalls shown don't seem to stress or demonstrate details that are body preserving EXCEPT he did say tuck the chin, so a point for mentioning something important.
When I teach a sprawl, I do not teach people to kick the hips back and away.
I teach them to drive their hips straight (straight) down such the sprawler's head does not rise at all when they sprawl.
I'd watch the rest, but I don't want to.

DCS
11/23/2016 4:48pm,
The only thing I consider decently executed is the double leg. Probably because i never had proper instruction in wrestling.

WFMurphyPhD
11/23/2016 4:55pm,
The only thing I consider decently executed is the double leg. Probably because i never had proper instruction in wrestling.

Respectfully, the double leg was sloppy too.

That said, I am a head up, chest up, belly button on them with no space into a standing flair finish double leg kind of guy.

Plus, with that leg to me, double leg would not have been my first choice unless I switched my own stance first or provoked them to switch theirs before shooting the double.

BKR
11/23/2016 7:03pm,
Respectfully, the double leg was sloppy too.

That said, I am a head up, chest up, belly button on them with no space into a standing flair finish double leg kind of guy.

Plus, with that leg to me, double leg would not have been my first choice unless I switched my own stance first or provoked them to switch theirs before shooting the double.

And I think this leads to the thought/concept that "20 "techniques" every white-belt should know is faulty pedagogy, to some degree at the very least.

Just watching those two move, I believe, adds weight to my "point".

Omega Supreme
11/23/2016 7:17pm,
So what 10 techniques would you guys recommend?

slamdunc
11/23/2016 7:33pm,
So what 10 techniques would you guys recommend?
1. Triangle choke from guard.
2. Cross collar choke from guard.
3. Straight armlock from mount.
4. Guard replacement with hip escape.
5. Rear naked choke.
6. Hip bump sweep.
7. Headlock escape (all positions).
8. Double leg takedown.
9. Straight armbar (from guard and standing).
10. Elbow to knee escape (against a mount).

WFMurphyPhD
11/23/2016 7:49pm,
1. Break falls, with details.
2. Standing in base (staggered, square, fighting, self-defense, grappling)
3. Moving on the balls of your feet in proper posture with following foot and don't cross your feet.
4. Hand fighting
5. Clinch
6. Defend punches from guard
7. Shoulder bridging, forward shrimping, backwards shrimping.
8. Escape mount with punches, bridge and elbow escapes
9. Headlock escapes on the ground
10. Headlock defense standing, with and without punches.
This is an incomplete list, off the cuff.
Honorable mention to standing in base,
Side control escapes, mount basics, and on and on.

slamdunc
11/23/2016 7:54pm,
Honorable mention to standing in base,
Side control escapes, mount basics, and on and on.Awesome! I guess these honorable mentions could all be a class by themselves lol.

Pship Destroyer
11/23/2016 7:59pm,
1.) Falling...well, those were really, really, bad ushiro ukemi (back falls), as you probably noticed. The zempo kaiten ukemi were OK, but were of the "ninja" style with the bent leg, designed to stand up from a soft roll. Not really useful taking a hard flat fall.

Why is it "really, really bad". It's just a demo. They aren't actual breakfalls. They were pantomime. And what the hell is "ninja style".

WFMurphyPhD
11/23/2016 8:04pm,
Why is it "really, really bad". It's just a demo. They aren't actual breakfalls. They were pantomime. And what the hell is "ninja style".

I do not advise that anyone practice their breakfalls on pavement or hardwood,
But breakfalls, and granby's and gymnastics properly done should provide some measure of damage mitigation in those less than ideal situations.
The details practiced on the safety mats must address the details needed to mitigate damage as much as can be done in those less than ideal situations.
Watch the real pro's getting thrown off the mats during big purse grappling tournaments and you will see what I mean...

Pship Destroyer
11/23/2016 8:09pm,
I do not advise that anyone practice their breakfalls on pavement or hardwood,
But breakfalls, and granby's and gymnastics properly done should provide some measure of damage mitigation in those less than ideal situations.
The details practiced on the safety mats must address the details needed to mitigate damage as much as can be done in those less than ideal situations.
Watch the real pro's getting thrown off the mats during big purse grappling tournaments and you will see what I mean...

I don't see any pavement or hardwood in these videos. And what do professional big purse tournaments have to do with these videos?

For a PhD you sure can't use an apostrophe correctly. Is your smart phone to blame?