PDA

View Full Version : Specific Goju Ryu Question: Mantis connection?



kimjonghng
11/14/2016 4:28pm,
Ok so I'm low down in the system, coming up for 5th kyu, but something I've wondered about but failed to find any sort of answer to a specific question on the Kururunfa kata. I have seen multiple sources claiming it is derived from 'Chinese Praying Mantis' kung fu (but never a specification of it being Northern Tang Lang or the Southern Mantis style. Is there anyone who knows more on this here? I've always been somewhat curious about Goju Ryu's Chinese connections to see what the sources were and how the compare, or if I would be effectively learning aspects of another style within Goju Ryu itself.

TyrannicMA
12/05/2016 3:28am,
Well, I never did goju ryu karate.

This video might be of some use to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao_7eI6g3xk

It shows kata with bunkai performed by Morio Higaonna sensei.

Eddie Hardon
1/02/2017 5:17pm,
Well Pat McCarthy, 9th Dan Gojo-Ryu, usually includes demonstrations of Mantis in his seminars, cos he said that was the first Form he studied. You might want to check with Joost Frehe, who is one of his students and runs a club at London Fields - you can google it. Hanshi McCarthy usually makes annual visits to the UK, Ireland and Europe or you can check his links. Good luck.

SpamN'Cheese
10/08/2017 4:14pm,
Ok so I'm low down in the system, coming up for 5th kyu, but something I've wondered about but failed to find any sort of answer to a specific question on the Kururunfa kata. I have seen multiple sources claiming it is derived from 'Chinese Praying Mantis' kung fu (but never a specification of it being Northern Tang Lang or the Southern Mantis style. Is there anyone who knows more on this here? I've always been somewhat curious about Goju Ryu's Chinese connections to see what the sources were and how the compare, or if I would be effectively learning aspects of another style within Goju Ryu itself.

Sorry to resurrect a dead thread. Yes, Goju ryu has some mantis gung fu techniques, but the majority of it comes from Whooping Crane, Nam Pai Chuan, tegumi, and whatever other empty hand techniques that were found and taught in Naha at the time. I only have ikkyu, and am not even at shodan. My sister still trains Goju ryu and is nidan; Even she says that much of Kurunfa is white crane stuff.

kimjonghng
10/08/2017 5:43pm,
Sorry to resurrect a dead thread. Yes, Goju ryu has some mantis gung fu techniques, but the majority of it comes from Whooping Crane, Nam Pai Chuan, tegumi, and whatever other empty hand techniques that were found and taught in Naha at the time. I only have ikkyu, and am not even at shodan. My sister still trains Goju ryu and is nidan; Even she says that much of Kurunfa is white crane stuff.

when we say mantis, which one? there's southern, which would make more sense, but there's also northern, which I believe had some presence in one of the areas Chojun Miyagi trained in during his time in China

Chili Pepper
10/10/2017 11:32am,
when we say mantis, which one? there's southern, which would make more sense, but there's also northern, which I believe had some presence in one of the areas Chojun Miyagi trained in during his time in China

Southern. There's a lot of "narrow horse" styles in that part of the world - southern mantis, dragon, crane, pangainoon, _ing _un, and then into some Okinawan styles like goju.

Falenay
10/16/2017 6:19am,
According to this article (http://www.iogkf.com/newsletter/edition_2010_3/articles_pg_04.htm), it is white crane or whooping crane style:


chances are they [i.e. Ryu Ryu Ko and his teacher] were a practitioner of the white or whooping crane style

Considering that this is an article published on the official IOGKF homepage by a guy working on historical sources and being in direct contact with Higaonna Sensei and everything he could get his hands on, I consider it authorative.

So the answer is: We do not know for sure, but the persons that should know best say "white crane or whooping crane style", not Southern Praying Mantis (although many techniques look very similar).

SpamN'Cheese
10/16/2017 8:48am,
when we say mantis, which one? there's southern, which would make more sense, but there's also northern, which I believe had some presence in one of the areas Chojun Miyagi trained in during his time in China

Fuchou isn't in the north of China, it's in the south, which is where Okinawan karate in general has its roots from.

Also, why are you asking about Kurunfa specifically? Gokyu's too low in rank to be learning black belt kata like Kurunfa. Shouldn't you be more worried about Saifa?

kimjonghng
10/16/2017 10:47am,
Fuchou isn't in the north of China, it's in the south, which is where Okinawan karate in general has its roots from.

Also, why are you asking about Kurunfa specifically? Gokyu's too low in rank to be learning black belt kata like Kurunfa. Shouldn't you be more worried about Saifa?

I'm taking my test with Saifa this december.

And how is the order i learn kata in any weight upon wanting to know where the kata themselves come from? Because I don't see any connection that can be made based on that logic

kimjonghng
10/16/2017 10:48am,
According to this article (http://www.iogkf.com/newsletter/edition_2010_3/articles_pg_04.htm), it is white crane or whooping crane style:



Considering that this is an article published on the official IOGKF homepage by a guy working on historical sources and being in direct contact with Higaonna Sensei and everything he could get his hands on, I consider it authorative.

So the answer is: We do not know for sure, but the persons that should know best say "white crane or whooping crane style", not Southern Praying Mantis (although many techniques look very similar).

Predominantly white crane or whooping crane, but it is known several kata have influences from other styles. There's more than just Crane in Fuchou.