I used to kick knives out of hands on a regular basis in practice. I don't think I'd try it in real life but .. I might if the guy was just standing there and I thought he was slow or I had the element of surprise. It's all in the timing and the type of kick.

NEVER use a crescent kick, that's retarded. Only one kick works for this. It has to be a front snap kick coming straight up. By front snap kick, I mean .. you know, like a roundhouse only a front kick .. like you are going to kick a soccer ball. You kick with your instep instead of the ball of your foot. They guy has the knife out there, you keep moving, suddenly you let your base leg loosen up and fling a front snap to the bottom of his hand and the knife goes sailing up in the air. That's the kick I used to do if I wanted to irritate someone in practice by sending the "knife" flying across the room.

Of course, this is just one of those crazy techniques that some people can pull off -- unless you are really fast with that kick and you know how to throw it without telegraphing it, I don't think it will work. I was always fast with that kick. There was almost no risk of getting cut doing this kick (as opposed to a crescent kick) because the kick is only there for a split second and the only thing within his reach is your shoe. Also, it was practice and we weren't kali and escrima people. I'm just saying, it can work sometimes.

Flipping in the air three times and throwing a smoke bomb can work sometimes too. :)

Okay, I don't know **** about knife fighting, but even without knowing ****, this violates the rules of common sense. If I had a knife, I'd have a death grip on the damn thing. If you are saying you can throw that kick faster than I can stab you, I'd argue. Even if you could, you'd have to hit my hand PERFECTLY to get me to release the knife. If you can't, I will turn your ass into swiss cheese.

Oh, AND you are on one foot. Even if you are balanced, you're not mobile. I would think movement is very important in knife defense, but again, I don't really know ****. Just trying to apply common sense.

>this violates the rules of common sense.

It's pretty much just a parlor trick. You guys mentioned kicks so I thought I'd share my experience. Like I said, I don't think I'd use this in real life. Maybe if I saw a perfect opportunity -- like the guy said, don't move, then started looking around and sneezed and covered his eyes with a hanky.

>If I had a knife, I'd have a death grip on the damn thing.

Doesn't matter. The hand opens when you strike it at certain points. On the inside it is the wrist. On the outside, it is just behind the knuckles. On the top, it is the base of the thumb. On the bottom (as in this crazy kick) it is the pinky. If you kick his wrist, it won't work. You have to hit his fingers with your instep. It's a sharp shooter trick, nothing more. Still, it can work sometimes.

>If you are saying you can throw that kick
>faster than I can stab you, I'd argue.

It's a fast kick, also under the radar and with the element of surprise. Nobody thinks you are going to kick their hand like that because it's retarded. They think they are in a safe range. They let up for a second and you kick. It won't work if they are ready. You have to feign or act or somehow sell the idea that you are unable to attack right then. Psychology comes into play. Like I said, it's a trick -- not a solid technique.

>Oh, AND you are on one foot.

For like half a second, tops.

> Just trying to apply common sense.

Nobody would use this technique if they are going to apply common sense. This is a "Hail Mary" technique. I'm just sharing how I did it in case anyone wants to try it for fun.

p.s. I edited my last post a little bit while you were quoting it.

Personally I would suggest keeping kicks below the waist to minimize the chance of someone grabbing your leg. Person with knife + your leg = bad situation.

Kicking above the waist (in general) is bad advice. For the kick I mentioned (which is again, just a trick and not a solid technique), they have to have their arm low and extended. If they have their hands up in a boxing stance, forget it.

grabbing

One thing I do want to say is that I think it is okay to grab the knife hand sometimes. People seem to think the guy is going to flick his wrist around and cut your wrist. Still, if you grab his wrist and tug on it fast so you can punch him in the face, then knock the knife out of his hand and punch him in the face again.. what's wrong with that? You keep moving and he is being fired on so he can't concentrate on flicking his wrist.

You can also do a number of Hapkido type throws with a firm hold on someone's wrist. The most basic being to just grab his wrist with both hands, spin his arm over your head (or duck under it) and flip him. Then knock the knife out and mount him.

A lot of people think grabbing the knife arm is taboo. I never understood that. Of course, if the guy has the blade facing down you can't grab his wrist (unless it's coming down Friday the 13th style with the knife out at 90 degrees), I understand that. If the guy has a 6 inch blade on a double sided knife then it might not be a good idea, yea -- but grabbing his arm and coming in with one of these [see picture] isn't all that crazy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/9chambers/stuff/chinna1.gif

Of course, I wouldn't cross my legs like that or wear that outfit. ... Anyway, nothing is high percentage in this situation. Sometimes, doing something unexpected (maybe even something that might seem stupid) is the only edge you can get. That's all I'm saying.

>

Doesn't matter. The hand opens when you strike it at certain points.


Phear the ninja pressure point attack!
No can defend!

It's not pressure points -- it's anatomy. Hold a pen (or knife if you have one there) in your own hand as tight as you can and slam it down onto the desk in front of you as hard as you can -- only instead of landing on the base of your hand, slam your pinky and fingers right into the table at a slight angle so the pinky hits first. See if you can hold on to the knife. You can't. I'm trying to do it right now with a knife. I can't. ... I'm going to stop now before I cut myself.

Anyway, coming up from underneath, the fingers are the weak point of the fist. Coming from the top, it's the thumb. Coming from the outside, it's just behind the knuckles. Coming from the inside, it's the wrist (this one is the most reliable). -- Most guys teach chopping the wrist so you have more of a chance of hitting it but that's too slow and you give him more of a target. I just throw a hook punch, using my knuckles to the wrist.

* If the knife wielder holds the blade down then the targets on the top and bottom of the hand are no longer valid.

Anyway, this is all craziness. These are sharp shooter tricks and not solid techniques. ... How many solid techniques are there for knife defense though? I think it's important to know what you can do, so you can use it if you see a chance. Like, maybe you wrestle him to the ground but he has the knife and you grab his arm but can't pry it out of his hand. Now you know where to punch to make him let go.

Kicking above the waist (in general) is bad advice. For the kick I mentioned (which is again, just a trick and not a solid technique), they have to have their arm low and extended. If they have their hands up in a boxing stance, forget it.

grabbing

One thing I do want to say is that I think it is okay to grab the knife hand sometimes. People seem to think the guy is going to flick his wrist around and cut your wrist. Still, if you grab his wrist and tug on it fast so you can punch him in the face, then knock the knife out of his hand and punch him in the face again.. what's wrong with that? You keep moving and he is being fired on so he can't concentrate on flicking his wrist.

You can also do a number of Hapkido type throws with a firm hold on someone's wrist. The most basic being to just grab his wrist with both hands, spin his arm over your head (or duck under it) and flip him. Then knock the knife out and mount him.

A lot of people think grabbing the knife arm is taboo. I never understood that. Of course, if the guy has the blade facing down you can't grab his wrist (unless it's coming down Friday the 13th style with the knife out at 90 degrees), I understand that. If the guy has a 6 inch blade on a double sided knife then it might not be a good idea, yea -- but grabbing his arm and coming in with one of these [see picture] isn't all that crazy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/9chambers/stuff/chinna1.gif

Of course, I wouldn't cross my legs like that or wear that outfit. ... Anyway, nothing is high percentage in this situation. Sometimes, doing something unexpected (maybe even something that might seem stupid) is the only edge you can get. That's all I'm saying.

http://ntkali.org/membersclip.mp4

Random Kali clip about grabbing the wrist.

grabbing

One thing I do want to say is that I think it is okay to grab the knife hand sometimes. People seem to think the guy is going to flick his wrist around and cut your wrist. Still, if you grab his wrist and tug on it fast so you can punch him in the face, then knock the knife out of his hand and punch him in the face again.. what's wrong with that? You keep moving and he is being fired on so he can't concentrate on flicking his wrist.

You can also do a number of Hapkido type throws with a firm hold on someone's wrist. The most basic being to just grab his wrist with both hands, spin his arm over your head (or duck under it) and flip him. Then knock the knife out and mount him.

A lot of people think grabbing the knife arm is taboo. I never understood that. Of course, if the guy has the blade facing down you can't grab his wrist (unless it's coming down Friday the 13th style with the knife out at 90 degrees), I understand that. If the guy has a 6 inch blade on a double sided knife then it might not be a good idea, yea -- but grabbing his arm and coming in with one of these [see picture] isn't all that crazy.


Of course, I wouldn't cross my legs like that or wear that outfit. ... Anyway, nothing is high percentage in this situation. Sometimes, doing something unexpected (maybe even something that might seem stupid) is the only edge you can get. That's all I'm saying.

Chambers, don´t take this the wrong way, but trying to grab a wrist when someone has a knife is suicide. Trying to do something stupid comes naturally (at least for me), and it never seem to work.
You can try (and should) control his arm, but the wrist is almost impossible to control without getting cut badly. When your hand moves towards the grip he can slash it before you get him. Of course, perhaps he doesn´t know it (most untrained people always aim for the face/body only), but if you are before a knife, and can´t run, you can´t assume that he/she doesn´t know how to use it.

Reikon,

Okay, I am watching that video now and here are my thoughts.

Scene 1.

Right off the bat you can see that he is saying you should never grab the guys wrist and just hold it there (like I said earlier) which is a pretty good general rule. If you grab a wrist you should be pulling it or using it to pull yourself in for a strike or something. Just holding it there allows him to move instead of you. Instead you should be using that grab for leverage as you step in and strike. Keep moving.

In this case he is saying not to hold it against the body as you strike. He says that a lot of instructors advocate this but he doesn't because you can just step back and pull the knife free. Of course, he ignores the fact that the guy can step in right along with you or tug your arm across so you can't step back or use your step back to pull himself right into you with a strike.

Also, by the time he stepped back, that strike would have hit him in the face, if not then the next one would have. He didn't even guard his face. Who is going to strike you from a fixed position anyway? You always move forward on a strike. Also, the guy can release his grab on the knife and use that fist to start his punch combo to the face, then attack the knife hand again or kick the guy in the stomach and run away.

Also, why wouldn't the guy grab it with the same-side arm so he can keep his body outside or use both hands at the beggining of the tug and shoot one in with the punch? It seems odd that he has the attacker so upright with his knees locked too. It's almost like these guys have not trained in any stiking arts. Why not put the attacker in some sort of reasonable stance?

Of course, if the knife fighter is skilled he should know all that already and have a back up plan. What I think would most likely happen in this instance:

A. If the knife fighter is slower, he will get punched in the face, then chopped in the neck and punched in the face again -- at which point he will be easily dissarmed or knocked silly enough to drop the knife.

B. If the puncher is slower, the knife fighter will step back, think about stabbing but then have to step back again to avoid the strike. They will then reset with no advantage gained.

C. If the striker is a dimwit, with wooden feet, this might actually work on him and he might almost get stabbed before shoving the guy back and yelling "kiiiiiaaaaaaaaiaaa!"

Scene 2.

Now, he lets the guy grab his wrist with both hands. He explains that you could just reach in with your other hand and grab the knife out of the hand that the guy is grabbing with both of his hands and stab him. ..... This is ... is this guy serious?

If the guy has your arm with both hands, then he has fixed the position of your knife so he can strike or he is going to pull you off balance. In all honesty, if he sees you reaching to switch the knife into the other hand then he is going to either let go and back off or blast you in the face. He didn't turn blind when he grabbed you. Also, having your hand like that he is in a great position to kick your shin or your groin, then go for a dissarm. He didn't lose the ability to kick or think just because he grabbed you.

Also, the guy will be crouched, not upright offering you his body to stab. This scene is filled with wishful thinking on many levels. The most obvious being the idea that you wouldn't drop the knife while trying to switch hands.

Scene 3.

Now, he suggest that you could just turn out of it if you don't want to switch hands. Yea.. you could also do a back flip and throw a smoke bomb.. still, your face is wide open for strikes. Everything I said for scene 2 would still apply. Also, all you have to do is step right around with him to prevent him from escaping when he steps back. You can even use his arm like a rope to help you step around faster.

This knife instructor's stance should be lower and he should be pulling harder. I am guessing he would in a real fight but still .. you fight how you train.

Then he advocates an arm drag to help you pull free. He'd have to be really fast just to get that to work ss an escape eithout getting punched. There's no chance he could get the counter stab though. He'd be punched or elbowed in the face by then. He'd at least have to avoid the punch and the guy would get away. Also, the guy could shove him away and take off looking for a stick. His stance is too upright, he could get shoved over or into a wall.By the time he rolls and gets up the other guy would be gone or right on top of him.

Scene 4.

I like this one. He's right about still being in the line of fire if you duck straight down.

Conclusion.

I watched this whole video even though I have a dial-up connection because I really wanted to see some expert stuff. I was kinda disapointed that I wasted my time on it. I know the stuff I've said to do on here has been crazy thus far but the stuff he is teaching on that video is absolutely useless. Wild stabbing would be more effective.

Of course, the guy couldn't grab your wrist at all if you used the grip with the blade facing down and had it tight .. so .. yea.

Jolly,

>trying to grab a wrist when someone has a knife is suicide.

So what do you suggest then? Aside from running .. because that isn't always an option. Because, I've never seen a technique that worked in sparring against a knife that didn't involve grabbing the arm at some point. Maybe a lucky shove or kick. The reality is that nothing works well against a knife. I think grabs work better than nothing though. You can't just stand there holding him though. Grab/punch, grab/throw, grab/kick, something. Don't just stand there and die.

>You can try (and should) control his arm, but the wrist is almost
>impossible to control without getting cut badly.

That would still put you ahead of the guy that just stood back against a wall until he got stabbed in the freaking liver. :P

>you can´t assume that he/she doesn´t know how to use it.

Right. All you can do is try stuff out in sparring and pick the techniques that work best with your natural abilities and skills. That and offer him money.

Reikon,

Okay, I am watching that video now and here are my thoughts.

Scene 1.

Right off the bat you can see that he is saying you should never grab the guys wrist and just hold it there (like I said earlier) which is a pretty good general rule. If you grab a wrist you should be pulling it or using it to pull yourself in for a strike. Just holding it there allows him to move instead of you. Instead you should be using that grab for leverage as you step in and strike.

In this case he is saying not to hold it against the body as you strike. He says that a lot of instructors advocate this but he doesn't because you can just step back and pull the knife free. Of course, he ignores the fact that the guy can step in right along with you or tug your arm across and use your step back to pull himself right into you with that strike.

Also, by the time he stepped back, that strike would have hit him in the face. He didn't even guard his face. Who is going to strike you from a fixed position anyway. You always move forward on a strike. Alsom the guy can release his grab on the knife and use that fist to start a one-two combo to the face, then attack the knife hand again or kick the guy in the stomach and run away.

Also, why wouldn't the guy grab it with the same-side arm so he can keep his body more clear or use both hands at the beggining of the tug and shoot one in with the punch? It seems odd that he has the attacker is so upright with his knees locked. It's almost like these guys have never trained in a stiking art.

Of course, if the knife fighter is skilled he should know all that already and have a back up plan. What I think would most likely happen in this instance:

A. If the knife fighter is slower, he will get punched in the face, then chopped in the neck and punched in the face again -- at which point he will be easily dissarmed.

B. If the puncher is slower, the knife fighter will step back, think about stabbing but then have to step back again to avoid the strike. They will reset.

C. If the striker is a dimwit, with wooden feet, this might actually work.

Scene 2.

Now, he lets the guy grab his wrist with both hands. He explains that you could just reach in with your other hand and grab the knife out of the hand that the guy is grabbing with both of his hands and stab him. ..... This is ... is this guy serious?

If the guy has your arm with both hands, then he has fixed the position of your knife so he can trike or he is going to pull you off balance. In all honesty, if he sees you reaching to switch the knife into the other hand then he is going to either let go or blast you in the face. He didn't turn blind when he grabbed you. Also, having your hand like that he is in a great position to kick your shin, then your groin, then dissarm. He didn't lose the ability to kick.

Also, the guy will be crouched, not upright offering you his body to stab. This scene is filled with wishful thinking on many levels. The most obvious being the idea that you wouldn't drop the knife while trying to switch hands.

Scene 3.

Now, he siggest that you could just turn out of it if you don't want to switch hands. Yea.. you could also do a back flip and throw a smoke bomb.. still, your face is wide open for strikes. Everything I said for scene 2 would still be in effect. Also, all you have to do is step right around with him to prevent him from escaping.

This knife instructor's stance should be lower and he should be pulling harder. I am guessing he would in a real fight but still .. you fight how you train.

Then he advocates an arm drag to help you pull free. He'd have to be really fast just to get that to work s an escape. There's no chance he could get the counter stab though. He'd be punched or elbowed in the face by then. He'd at least have to avoid the punch and the guy would get away. Also, the guy could shove him away and take off looking for a stick. His stance is too upright.

Scene 4.

I like this one. He's right about still being in the line of fire if you duck straight down.

Conclusion.

I watched this whole video even though I have a dial-up connection because I really wanted to see some expert stuff. I was kinda disapointed that I wasted my time on it. I know the stuff I've said to do on here has been crazy thus far but the stuff he is teaching on that video is absolutely useless. Wild stabbing would be more effective.

Of course, the guy couldn't grab your wrist at all if you used the grip with the blade facing down and had it tight .. so .. yea. Whatever.

I never said to expect anything. I said it was a random Kali clip about wrist grabbing, which it is.

You forget one thing: You can hit the guy and hurt him, but he has something that can easily kill you.

Scene 1: I would've done it a bit differently. I agree that he could've easily followed.

Scene 2: No he's serious. Pulling him around doesn't change anything...He can easily regain his balance, and pulling him towards you only makes his job of stabbing you that much easier. Kicking him? Like I said, you're kicking him, he's putting a knife in your stomach. As for letting go with one hand, it defeats the purpose of the two on one baseball bat grip, and makes it that much easier for him to pull the knife hand free and do what he pleases.

The other stuff...I'm not so sure about...I'd have to agree with you.

Man, the kali guys are going to yell at us ..

>You forget one thing: You can hit the guy and
>hurt him, but he has something that can easily
>kill you.

Yea, that's why you have to do something aggressive. Your choices are limited to strike and grab. I like to think those things can work together or that they can both be incorporated. If you don't feel comfortable grabbing, don't do it. I look at a grab as a stepping stone. I'd grab and let go if it got me close enough to strike and trapped his arm long enough for me to get that strike in there to a good target. Letting go wouldn't "defeat the purpose" if I got my strikes in and hurt him.

Also, it is harder to stab someone when you are trying to avoid punches thrown at your head than it is if he is just standing there.

>He can easily regain his balance

My point is, so can you. He seems to ignore the idea that you can pull back when he pulls or step closer and then pull again. They seem to ignore that in the video -- maybe they cover that in the next one.

>and pulling him towards you only makes his
>job of stabbing you that much easier.

Not if you retain your grip and then step back again pulling him off balance.

>Kicking him? Like I said, you're kicking him, he's
>putting a knife in your stomach.

Not if you still have a hold of his wrist. You hold on, pull his arm and kick his shin or groin .. kind of like this [see frames 3 and 4 in picture] only with a low kick instead .. your lead leg to his shin/knee or rear leg to the groin or whatever ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/9chambers/stuff/kankusho.jpg

>As for letting go with one hand, it defeats the
>purpose of the two on one baseball bat grip,
>and makes it that much easier for him to
>pull the knife hand free and do what he
>pleases.

No it doesn't because you are punching him in the face. You can always renew your grip after the punch or .. instead of punching the face, you can yank his arm then let go with one hand and punch his inside wrist with it to disarm. I'm just saying, you are in range to attack so he isn't safe either. You aren't going to be fixated on the knife and forget the rest of his body. He can kill you, yea. Not if you beat him selseless first.

Anyway, .. odds are you will die. Might as well die trying. Nobody else seems to be posting any ideas on what to do. I thought I'd take a crack at it.

Man, the kali guys are going to yell at us ..

I am a Kali guy (n00b one though).


Yea, that's why you have to do something aggressive. Your choices are limited to strike and grab.

I prefer run....


I like to think those things can work together or that they can both be incorporated. If you don't feel comfortable grabbing, don't do it. I look at a grab as a stepping stone. I'd grab and let go if it got me close enough to strike and trapped his arm long enough for me to get that strike in there to a good target. Letting go wouldn't "defeat the purpose" if I got my strikes in and hurt him.

And if he didn't care if you hit him and he just wanted to kill you?


Also, it is harder to stab someone when you are trying to avoid punches thrown at your head than it is if he is just standing there.

View above.


My point is, so can you. He seems to ignore the idea that you can pull back when he pulls or step closer and then pull again. They seem to ignore that in the video -- maybe they cover that in the next one.

I agreed with you on the whole tug-o-war thing.
What I didn't agree with, was you're disagreement in switching knife hands.



Not if you retain your grip and then step back again pulling him off balance. Eventually you're going to run out of space to back up and pull, or he's gonna get pissed and tackle you...with a knife.


Not if you still have a hold of his wrist. You hold on, pull his arm and kick his shin or groin .. kind of like this only with a low kick instead .. your lead leg to his shin/knee or rear leg to the groin or whatever ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/9chambers/stuff/kankusho.jpg

What stops him from moving, kicking back, or pulling another knife?



No it doesn't because you are punching him in the face. You can always renew your grip after the punch or .. instead of punching the face, you can yank his arm then let go with one hand and punch his inside wrist with it to dissarm. I'm just saying, you are in range to attack so he isn't safe either. You aren't going to be fixated on the knife and forget the rest of his body. He can kill you, yea. Not if you beat him selseless first.

Anyway, .. odds are you will die. Might as well die trying. Nobody else seems to be posting any ideas on what to do. I thought I'd take a crack at it.

Punching someone in the face doesn't stop them from moving. If you fixate on the body and forget the knife, you die. The only thing that makes this a life or death struggle right now is the knife.

>I prefer run....

If that were always an option, martial arts wouldn't exist.

>And if he didn't care if you hit him and
>he just wanted to kill you?

Someone with a knife is not stronger than someone without a knife. If strikes won't keep him from stabbing you then they won't keep a boxer from punching you to death. What I am saying is, when you punch a knife expert, doth he not bleed? How is he going to stab you when he can't see or even stand up straight because he just got blasted in the face and another fist is headed right for him?

If a knife expert can just run in with pure offense and no defence and just brush off strikes left and right then why do strikes work on unarmed people? Are knife experts somehow more able to take a punches because of the knife in their hand? Explain how they can just get hit and not worry about it. How does that happen? Why don't they have to raise their hands and parry when punches are thrown? How is it they can dive in there and stab you instead of ducking or dodging away from the punch. Punches just bounce off of their heads? They are able to duck under them better than regular unarmed people? What? ... Do they rely on your fear of the knife so much that they just let defense fly out the window or do they have to evade strikes like the rest of us?

>was you're disagreement in switching knife hands.

Switching knife hands during a fight is always ill advised. There is always a chance you could drop the knife -- especially when he controls your knife hand. A well timed yank in the middle of your switch could send the knife flying. I would never do that. He should have punched the attacker's arms instead and pulled with his knife hand. That would have been far less risky. Even if you do switch hands, what's to stop him from grabbing that hand -- switching to it? It's right next to the one he has already.

>What stops him from moving, kicking back, or pulling another knife?

That's a good point. "What's to stop me from doing those things?" x [infinity]

The thing is, he has control of your knife/arm. That puts you guys at more of an even playing field than him not having control of it. That's all I'm saying.

>Punching someone in the face doesn't stop them from moving.

It does stop them from moving from the point you hit their face until the point they regain their senses. That split second is enough time to hit them again or get a good grip for a disarm. Then you have the knife and .. whatever super power comes along with it that allows you to roll punches off like a greased pig.

>If you fixate on the body and forget the knife, you die.

It can also be said that if you fixate on the knife and forget the body, you die. All you have to do is hurt him bad enough -- and the knife is not able to hurt you. The knife can't hurt you if the man is knocked out or unable to stand up. If he is severely hurt by a strike/kick to the groin, neck, knee, head -- you will have an easier time getting that knife. You might even be able to do some classic wrist lock throws once you've made him see stars. Heck, if you are lucky you might knock him out. Whatever happens -- you are going to be better off than when he was at full capacity. That's my point. Stike, keep striking, do whatever it takes.

It's better than just running around the room weeping anyway.

If that were always an option, martial arts wouldn't exist.

Using martial arts can make it an option.



Someone with a knife is not stronger than someone without a knife. If strikes won't keep him from stabbing you then they won't keep a boxer from punching you to death. What I am saying is, when you punch a knife expert, doth he not bleed? How is he going to stab you when he can't see or even stand up straight because he just got blasted in the face and another fist is headed right for him?

If it would effect him enough that he could just run in with pure offense and no defence and just brush off strikes then why do strikes work on unarmed people? Are knife experts somehow more able to take a punch because of the knife in their hand? Explain how they can just get hit and not worried about it. How does that happen?

Simple as this: The knife. You hit him 1 or 2 times, good job. He stabbed you 3 or 4. Guess who's laying on the ground dying?




Switching knife hands during a fight is always ill advised. There is always a chance you could drop the knife -- especially when he controls your knife hand. A well timed yank in the middle of your switch could send the knife flying. I would never do that. He should have punched the attacker's arms instead and pulled with his knife hand. That would have been far less risky. Even if you do switch hands, what's to stop him from grabbing that hand -- switching to it? It's right next to the one he has already.

If he's punching you in the face (with his free hand) when you try and then stabbing at you again? It's only risky if you have the ability to hit his hand...when you're completely focused on one hand, tying up both arms, he can switch and stab you before you can react fast enough to hit his hand.


That's a good point. "What's to stop me from doing those things?" x [infinity]

The thing is, he has control of your knife/arm. That puts you guys at more of an even playing field than him not having control of it. That's all I'm saying.

Not really. Both his hands are tied up, the knifer has a free one.


It does stop them from moving from the point you hit their face until the point they regain their senses. That split second is enough time to hit them again or get a good grip for a disarm. Then you have the knife and .. whatever super power comes along with it that allows you to roll punches off like a greased pig.

Yeah..I'm sure stabbing victims never fought back.


It can also be said that if you fixate on the knife and forget the body, you die. All you have to do is hurt him bad enough -- and the knife is not able to hurt you. The knife can't hurt you if the man is knocked out or unable to stand up. If he is severely hurt by a strike/kick to the groin, neck, knee, head -- you will have an easier time getting that knife. You might even be able to do some classic wrist lock throws once you've made him see stars. Heck, if you are lucky you might knock him out. Whatever happens -- you are going to be better off than when he was at full capacity. That's my point. Stike, keep striking, do whatever it takes.

It's better than just running around the room weeping anyway.

I agree. I'm just saying don't forget the knife or lose track of it.

Anyway, I think the point we're getting at here is do what ever you can to control the knife, and then whatever you can to make him drop it...yes?

>You hit him 1 or 2 times, good job.

The whole art of boxing is about tiring a guy out until he lowers his defenses enough that you can get that one strike or combo in that knocks him out. It's never a hundred punches that knock a guy out -- it's always one punch. The first 99 punches were just you working your way in for that one punch. People don't get knocked out gradually. It's one good solid hit that he didn't dodge because he was too tired or too slow or outsmarted.

When you don't have gloves on and you can grab the dude and hold him still, your chances of getting those punches in fast increase a lot. In other words, 1 or 2 times is enough if they are solid hits. A lot of UFC matches have ended after one or two punches -- sometimes at the beggining of the match, sometimes after a lot of dancing around.

Anyway, you might not knock him out but there's no way he is going to stab you at the very moment your fist is smashing his face. That isn't going to happen if you land the punch. He'll pause for at least a fraction of a second if you land it.

>He stabbed you 3 or 4. Guess who's laying on the ground dying?

If he missed you with his strikes then maybe this happened. Nobody gets punched square in the face and keeps coming forward fast enough to stab you before you can resume your balanced posture and evade them. Making him miss you is harder to do when he is tugging on your arm so you can't get away. Also, t is hard to concentrate on avoiding a strike and concentrate on stabbing at the same time. One or two strikes could be enough at that range with you trapped in place. I think the striker has a decent chance of succeeding.

He's got as good of a chance as the knife fighter of hitting his targets. You only have to get stabbed once. Yea, you only have to get hit once to get knocked out. ... You know, some people have been stabbed 12 times and lived. You've got to hit a blood vessel or an organ and he's still not going to die right away. It's harder to hit a good target when you have to defend against strikes. People get stabbed and live.

I'm not saying it is going to be a 100% chance for survival. I'm just saying, .. what else can you do against a kinfe anyway? Run? What if you are in an elevator or with three small children who can't run fast? What then?

>when you're completely focused on one hand,
>tying up both arms, he can switch and stab you
>before you can react fast enough to hit his hand.

No, I meant that the knifer could hit the guy who grabbed him's arms and escape. If a guy grabs my arm, I punch his arm. It works most of the time. People don't usually want to risk an injury just to hold onto a wrist. It also hurts a lot to get punched in the arm when it is fixed in a position like that.

>Both his hands are tied up, the knifer has a free one.

He can let go with one arm.

>Yeah..I'm sure stabbing victims never fought back.

Most of them never saw the knife or knew they were stabbed until it was over. I'm sure a lot of people have fought back and lost. Who knows what they tried to do? It would be nice to have some data on what worked best before they died. :P

>I agree. I'm just saying don't forget the knife or lose track of it.

I know what you mean. I'm just providing an argument. Knives are powerful weapons and kali experts can cut you to ribbons with them in no time flat. I'm just playing Houdini here. I like puzzles. I've tried all of this stuff out before. It's just fun to talk about with someone new. Like everyone says, the reality is that the guy with a knife has a huge advantage. Say a prayer and do your best. You are facing sudden death.