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kimjonghng
6/04/2016 3:19pm,
Ok, so my gym runs the following classes

Karate (family classes, so mixed age ranges from kids to adults)
Kickboxing (adults only)
MMA (Adults and kids classes seperate, though sometimes merged)

Anyway, Im noticing a pattern that Im becoming dissapointed in some of the classes, particularly the mixed karate ones. We do spar at least weekly, but even the adults completely wimp out and dont want to do it. Theres attitudes of 'Im too old for this,' 'I dont like bruises' 'if we're not learning kata whats the point?' (someone actually said that in class). My sensei is of the opinion that they need to toughen up as senior grades but Im becoming frustrated because non of them actually push me. I get that in the MMA and Kickboxing classes but it's like nobody wants to be able to fight in the other class.

Now, Im enjoying learning Karate and I understand full contact isnt for everyone, but considering my training goals, I could drop a night or two and train harder in the MMA and Kickboxing 3 days a week and put more time into my weightlifting and other training to get stronger.

If given choice, what would you guys do?

mrtnira
6/04/2016 5:54pm,
Kimjonghng, what are your goals? Once those are established, people can talk with you about intention, direction, and utility of differing training models.

Personally, my understanding has changed over time. There is a utility to pattern training (techniques by the numbers), forms (Kata), sparring (the aliveness people talk about on the Forum), and using the martial arts as exercise. Not everyone uses those things for the same reasons, and not everyone will mix and match those things easily. There is a pattern in many people of only-do-X (whatever X is). They do X because they comprehend that one thing, but they don't see the value of Y, and Z, so they not only do not do those things but may also discount them or discourage others from doing them.

So, I would ask you to talk about your own expectations and what you understand you are doing. How long have you been practicing, etc. That will give people some background to answer some of your question.

Raycetpfl
6/04/2016 6:17pm,
.

If given choice, what would you guys do?

join a muay thai gym

Muay Thai > goJu krotty

kimjonghng
6/04/2016 7:06pm,
Kimjonghng, what are your goals? Once those are established, people can talk with you about intention, direction, and utility of differing training models.

Personally, my understanding has changed over time. There is a utility to pattern training (techniques by the numbers), forms (Kata), sparring (the aliveness people talk about on the Forum), and using the martial arts as exercise. Not everyone uses those things for the same reasons, and not everyone will mix and match those things easily. There is a pattern in many people of only-do-X (whatever X is). They do X because they comprehend that one thing, but they don't see the value of Y, and Z, so they not only do not do those things but may also discount them or discourage others from doing them.

So, I would ask you to talk about your own expectations and what you understand you are doing. How long have you been practicing, etc. That will give people some background to answer some of your question.

To answer that, I have no problem with pattern training or kata, in fact its something I do enjoy about karate and would prefer not to lose something like that if I can. Thing is I want to be able to use my martial arts at higher resistance. Thing is even in semi-contact with gloves and pads, my partners are running backward from one end of the room to the other desperately trying to avoid getting a love tap (if you hit them, they whine, theyre friends whine etc etc). Theres an odd atmosphere I've noticed of people thinking sparring is super dangerous and any kind of bruising or being knocked down is absolutely awful and some kind of personal and deliberate attempt to hurt them. This is not just among the younger students but the older ones as well. Ive spoken to my sensei about this before this and his opinion is many of them need to toughen up, but only a handful of us take the art seriously enough to want that kind of a fight.

It's different in the full contact classes though that only a small amount of adults do. Yeah in those we dont really do kata, but we get into harder body conditioning, work up more of a sweat, get to spar hard, incorporate ground fighting and submissions and nobody takes it personally or throws a hissy fit.

Basically to me its half arsed to learn a martial art if youre not going to spar and spar properly

goodlun
6/04/2016 7:42pm,
Use the new off nights to do Judo

ghost55
6/04/2016 9:07pm,
Join a Kyokushin dojo. Kyokushin is best Karate.

gregaquaman
6/04/2016 10:36pm,
Dont bash the kids in the vegie patch. If you want to spar hard pro fighters can always use fresh meat.

Otherwise you can do either or do both.

You can spar light on some days and heavy on others.

ghost55
6/04/2016 11:01pm,
Dont bash the kids in the vegie patch. If you want to spar hard pro fighters can always use fresh meat.

Otherwise you can do either or do both.

You can spar light on some days and heavy on others.

I think the issue is that most of the adults can't be arsed to spar at all.

gregaquaman
6/05/2016 4:12am,
I think the issue is that most of the adults can't be arsed to spar at all.

Which should no longer be a surprise. So he can do soft sparring in that class or hard sparring in a different class. So don't do hard sparring in soft class.

Or am I missing some other issue?

kimjonghng
6/05/2016 4:51am,
Which should no longer be a surprise. So he can do soft sparring in that class or hard sparring in a different class. So don't do hard sparring in soft class.

Or am I missing some other issue?

Its not even the hard sparring the adults want to avoid, they dont even want to soft spar. They want to do kata and nothing else, not even fitness drills

kimjonghng
6/05/2016 4:52am,
Join a Kyokushin dojo. Kyokushin is best Karate.

That's something I'm really hoping to do at some point in the future. Nearest one to me is two cities over though

mrtnira
6/05/2016 7:37am,
If they want to only do Kata, then that is what they want to do. They've come for that. Kata is of some value for fitness, and they may also find some necessary human social relationship there with Kata as the common glue. Kata also has other health and martial arts benefits. It is part of a spectrum of training, of which you are also engaged. From your writings you appear more combat-oriented. So you are simply in a different place along that spectrum.

As a general life rule, it is generally not a good pattern to impose our own expectations on others in a condition like this one. Most businesses will need to have a large pool of customers, and the needs and interests of those customers will break out into sub-groups. The sub-groups will have their own needs and interests within the general boundaries of that business. Each sub-group must be considered and maintained as part of a successful business model. If only hard core combat Karate people came to the martial arts training, there may not be enough people to pay the bills and keep the lights on.

As a suggestion, if you can learn to appreciate the sub-groups for their value -- health, relationship, traditional pattern training, etc., you can engage and encourage them better in their own life journey.

notfromvenus
6/09/2016 7:30pm,
Thing is even in semi-contact with gloves and pads, my partners are running backward from one end of the room to the other desperately trying to avoid getting a love tap (if you hit them, they whine, theyre friends whine etc etc). Theres an odd atmosphere I've noticed of people thinking sparring is super dangerous and any kind of bruising or being knocked down is absolutely awful and some kind of personal and deliberate attempt to hurt them. This is not just among the younger students but the older ones as well. Ive spoken to my sensei about this before this and his opinion is many of them need to toughen up, but only a handful of us take the art seriously enough to want that kind of a fight.

That's pretty depressing. I've met some people like that in TKD, but usually they toughen up or quit (maybe to join some dance studio no-contact place, I dunno). I get not wanting to go full contact, and I know that when you're first starting with sparring it can be startling to get hit, but medium-contact striking while wearing pads should not be a big deal for anyone that's been doing (striking-based) martial arts for a while. People need to learn how to take and deliver a controlled hit pretty early on, and to have good sportsmanship and support each other rather than get all butthurt because someone beat them in a sparring match.

Maybe you could see if your teacher would allocate some time for the more serious students to have your own class where you can spar without the whining.

notfromvenus
6/09/2016 7:34pm,
Its not even the hard sparring the adults want to avoid, they dont even want to soft spar. They want to do kata and nothing else, not even fitness drills

Maybe they should try Tai Chi, then......

littletiger
6/10/2016 1:58pm,
I wholesale believe in trying other things. I attend two different martial arts schools so that I can change up things. Also sometimes its not the style you dislike but the way its taught.

kimjonghng
7/14/2016 6:08am,
After some thought and consideration, Ive decided for now I want Judo to be my main sport, and while I enjoy the MMA and Goju Ryu, I also want to develop more strength training and use striking as a secondary focus for now. To this end, I will continue my kickboxing and karate, but since Judo is my main sport, that will be my focus, I will increase my lessons for that and cut back on the others so I can use any other time I have to go to the gym and build my strength up