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jwinch2
5/24/2016 9:39am,
Hi everyone,

This is nothing more than satisfying an intellectual curiosity, but I appreciate any help that you might be able to provide.

Are there any legit judo combatives programs/curriculum that exist? I am thinking of how BJJ has the defensive focus to much of it's core curriculum and how there are also specific combatives programs such as Gracie Combatives, etc. A quick search on that for Judo didn't show much other than some people who claim to have invented "Combat Judo", who actually seem to have a legit Judo background, but the stuff they created looks a bit sketchy, and not much like Judo from what I saw. I also saw some people claiming to teach WWII Combatives which were largly Judo-based.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance!

Raycetpfl
5/24/2016 9:51am,
Hi everyone,

This is nothing more than satisfying an intellectual curiosity, but I appreciate any help that you might be able to provide.

Are there any legit judo combatives programs/curriculum that exist? I am thinking of how BJJ has the defensive focus to much of it's core curriculum and how there are also specific combatives programs such as Gracie Combatives, etc. A quick search on that for Judo didn't show much other than some people who claim to have invented "Combat Judo", who actually seem to have a legit Judo background, but the stuff they created looks a bit sketchy, and not much like Judo from what I saw. I also saw some people claiming to teach WWII Combatives which were largly Judo-based.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance!

It's called Gracie Jiu Jitsu

BackFistMonkey
5/24/2016 10:08am,
Hi everyone,

This is nothing more than satisfying an intellectual curiosity, but I appreciate any help that you might be able to provide.

Are there any legit judo combatives programs/curriculum that exist? I am thinking of how BJJ has the defensive focus to much of it's core curriculum and how there are also specific combatives programs such as Gracie Combatives, etc. A quick search on that for Judo didn't show much other than some people who claim to have invented "Combat Judo", who actually seem to have a legit Judo background, but the stuff they created looks a bit sketchy, and not much like Judo from what I saw. I also saw some people claiming to teach WWII Combatives which were largly Judo-based.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance!

Have you considered Judo and a bad attitude?

Raycetpfl
5/24/2016 10:35am,
Have you considered Judo and a bad attitude?

Again...... Gracie Jiu Jitsu, no?

BackFistMonkey
5/24/2016 10:50am,
Again...... GJJ (edit), no?

GeneLebell Jiu Jitsu? Did he rebrand again ?

Raycetpfl
5/24/2016 11:08am,
GeneLebell Jiu Jitsu? Did he rebrand again ?

My favorite Gene LeBell technique I teach is when doing self defense and grabbing the triceps for throws treat their skin like a gi. You can generally get a really nice handful.

Raycetpfl
5/24/2016 11:12am,
GeneLebell Jiu Jitsu? Did he rebrand again ?

Gene is Old Skool enough to where his judo basically on par with BJJ in its idea's of it being a combat art . Plus you mix in catch wrestling, bjj and sambo. Gokor and Gene LeBell are no your average Judo guys.

submessenger
5/24/2016 11:13am,
Built-in grips: http://www.zcosmetichealth.com/files/2014/04/Flabby-arms.png

Raycetpfl
5/24/2016 11:14am,
Built-in grips: http://www.zcosmetichealth.com/files/2014/04/Flabby-arms.png

This is why I exclusively fight grandparents on the street.

jwinch2
5/24/2016 11:14am,
It's called Gracie Jiu Jitsu

Agreed to a point. However, I would think there are things which have developed from Judo, that might focus more on the throwing aspect, and even atemi waza, that would differ greatly from GJJ as awesome of an art as it is.

jwinch2
5/24/2016 11:15am,
Have you considered Judo and a bad attitude?

Agreed on that. One certainly does not have to throw people in such a way that they land nicely, and that would obviously be a more combative approach.

jwinch2
5/24/2016 11:16am,
This is why I exclusively fight grandparents on the street.

A very wise strategy for upping your win/loss ratio.

submessenger
5/24/2016 11:22am,
This is why I exclusively fight grandparents on the street.

Young folk can have this, too. In a SD scenario, it's a legitimate good grip, like a lapel grip that hurts a bit more.

Raycetpfl
5/24/2016 11:44am,
Agreed to a point. However, I would think there are things which have developed from Judo, that might focus more on the throwing aspect, and even atemi waza, that would differ greatly from GJJ as awesome of an art as it is.

Every skilled grappler has something to add but I would say what Gracie Jiu-Jitsu focused on was things that work against strikes and larger opponents and a whole series of Attacks/defenses when someone is clearly threatening your well being.
Ben is the best Judo resource here but we have talked about it before.

Japanese Jiu Jitsu
l
Judo-
/ \
Sambo. Bjj


Judo- judo over the years has specifically and purposely focused on sport throwing and pinning by proxy of its rule set.

Sambo- Sambo has a Combat and Sport variety with a focus on throwing with a minor in ending the fight via subs for both and strikes for the combat variety.
In international sport sambo twisting leg locks and chokes are illegal. It's basically freestyle judo rules.

Bjj and Gjj- Have focused on submissions and dominat positions you are able to throw strikes from where you cant be hit back. In sport bjj the dominant position that you can strike from score you points. Sport Jiu-Jitsu doesn't all knee reaping.
Gjj focuses on a no rules type of fighting where all holds and strikes are legal. There are no time limits or points. Weapon disarms are gone over in this curriculum ,how to deal with striking opponents and how to deliver your own strikes.

All of these arts are like a single species that was separated on different islands and then evolved into distinct species over the course of time to adapt to their environment.

A rock python isn't better than an anaconda anymore than a Burmese python is worse than an anaconda. They have just developed to solve different problems in a similar way with nearly identical attributes.


If you watch sambo and Judo they win by throws that would land you in a position that you can be subbed or struck from a lot.
Seio Nage is a common example. Gjj allows the focus to be strictly about the ending rather than the assumption that the throw caused the KO.
By the way I love Judo and Sambo. I am just pointing out differences that I see. Sambo and Judo have better throwing skills on a whole than bjj does, but bjj has better finishing skills (ko and sub) as a whole.

BackFistMonkey
5/24/2016 11:50am,
Agreed on that. One certainly does not have to throw people in such a way that they land nicely, and that would obviously be a more combative approach.

Look up Gene Lebell. He has tons of material and a wonderful sense of humor.

jwinch2
5/24/2016 11:55am,
Every skilled grappler has something to add but I would say what Gracie Jiu-Jitsu focused on was things that work against strikes and larger opponents and a whole series of Attacks/defenses when someone is clearly threatening your well being.
Ben is the best Judo resource here but we have talked about it before.

Japanese Jiu Jitsu
l
Judo-
/ \
Sambo. Bjj


Judo- judo over the years has specifically and purposely focused on sport throwing and pinning by proxy of its rule set.

Sambo- Sambo has a Combat and Sport variety with a focus on throwing with a minor in ending the fight via subs for both and strikes for the combat variety.
In international sport sambo twisting leg locks and chokes are illegal. It's basically freestyle judo rules.

Bjj and Gjj- Have focused on submissions and dominat positions you are able to throw strikes from where you cant be hit back. In sport bjj the dominant position that you can strike from score you points. Sport Jiu-Jitsu doesn't all knee reaping.
Gjj focuses on a no rules type of fighting where all holds and strikes are legal. There are no time limits or points. Weapon disarms are gone over in this curriculum ,how to deal with striking opponents and how to deliver your own strikes.

All of these arts are like a single species that was separated on different islands and then evolved into distinct species over the course of time to adapt to their environment.

A rock python isn't better than an anaconda anymore than a Burmese python is worse than an anaconda. They have just developed to solve different problems in a similar way with nearly identical attributes.

Agreed with all of that of course. I would suggest however, that there was a time when the "sport Judo" was not so much of a thing, and it was just plain old Judo. Some of what I have read on pre-WWII Judo seems to support the idea that it's utility and focus for self-defensive purposes might have been much greater than is commonly seen today. I'm far from an expert on this, which is why I started the thread.