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Scott Larson
3/26/2015 9:48am,
Sascha Matuszak (http://www.bullshido.net/author/sascha-matuszak) has some interesting articles over on fightland.com about the development of CMA.

Shuai Jiao: China's Indigenous Wrestling Style (http://www.bullshido.net/blog/shuai-jiao-chinas-indigenous-wrestling-style)


"The Practical Isn't Pretty": General Qi Jiguang on Martial Arts for Soldiers (http://www.bullshido.net/blog/the-practical-isnt-pretty-general-qi-jiguang-on-martial-arts-for-soldiers)

A Kungfu Contribution to MMA: The Eight Swords (http://www.bullshido.net/blog/a-kungfu-contributuion-to-mma-the-eight-swords)

BKR
3/26/2015 12:46pm,
Sascha Matuszak (http://www.bullshido.net/author/sascha-matuszak) has some interesting articles over on fightland.com about the development of CMA.

Shuai Jiao: China's Indigenous Wrestling Style (http://www.bullshido.net/blog/shuai-jiao-chinas-indigenous-wrestling-style)


"The Practical Isn't Pretty": General Qi Jiguang on Martial Arts for Soldiers (http://www.bullshido.net/blog/the-practical-isnt-pretty-general-qi-jiguang-on-martial-arts-for-soldiers)

A Kungfu Contribution to MMA: The Eight Swords (http://www.bullshido.net/blog/a-kungfu-contributuion-to-mma-the-eight-swords)

Scott, none of those links worked for me.

I like it, the practical isn't pretty...

DCS
3/26/2015 1:00pm,
http://fightland.vice.com/author/sascha-matuszak

Problem solved

BKR
3/26/2015 1:12pm,
http://fightland.vice.com/author/sascha-matuszak

Problem solved

You Galithians are so clever...

DCS
3/26/2015 1:25pm,
... and handsome.

BKR
3/26/2015 1:31pm,
... and handsome.

Sorry, not interested...

Scott Larson
3/26/2015 3:13pm,
Sorry Ben, I'm pretty **** at using the internet sometimes. ;)

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

BKR
3/26/2015 3:55pm,
Well,it sounds like the chinese army as such sucked at H2H and in general, so, the General set about to fix that. It also looks like he came to similar conclusions as have been reached by modern armies regarding the value of H2H training as a general training method (US Army/MC combatives). Although it does not rely on 32 "postures".

That ties into the value of "alive " training, whether or not it involves "the deadly" or not.

W. Rabbit
3/26/2015 8:57pm,
It's through Qi Jiguang's writings that we know about the old Shaolin staff methods. He didn't think much of empty handed training at all for military purposes.. in his opinion the moment you trained to be strong enough to pick up a stick, you should start learning to fight with the stick.

He held a special interest in methods from Shaolin particularly their mastery of weapons and especially the staff, which along with his leadership thwarted a whole series of invasions from Japanese pirates.

This whole part described here below (from the 2nd link) was REMOVED, by him, after he retired from military service.

HE basically didn't want his signature work to even talk about kung fu that didn't include huge nasty Chinese weapons. To him empty handed was civilian stuff. Since copies still exist with this "lost chapter" we know about some really old styles. Some like the Yang Family Spear/Staff forms survive to this day.


It’s probably best just to let the general describe the process himself, as taken from the introduction to Chapter 14:

“Among the past and present fist specialists, the Song Great Founder had the Long Fist system with 32 positions. Moreover there are six pace and fist techniques, the Monkey Fist, and the Feinting Fist. The famous positions each have their own names, but in reality they are quite similar and scarcely differ from one another.”

“Looking at Master Wen in the present day, we have the 72 moving fist methods, the 36 combining and locking techniques, the 24 counter-spy techniques, the 8 flash flips, and the 12 short strikes. These are the best of the lot. As for Lu Hong's 8 blows, while they are firm, they do not measure up to Min Zhang's short strike. The leg techniques of Shangdong's Li Bantian, Eagle Claw Wang's grappling methods, Thousand Stumble Zhang's stumbling techniques, Zhang Bojing's strikes, the Shaolin monastery stick fighting art, together with the Green Field cudgel methods, all stand as equals. Mr. Yang's spear arts together with the open hand, fist, and quarterstaff skills, are all famous to the present day.”

“Although each one has its own specific proficiency, still as they are handed down, the traditions are incomplete, some missing the lower part, some missing the upper.”

Some other interesting passages from the introduction:

“These very fist techniques constitute the source of martial skill... Once you have acquired the skills, you must test them on an opponent, but in no way should you consider victory or submission to be a cause for shame or pride. Rather, you ought to think, "By what means did I defeat him?" Or “By what means could I have defeated him?” Then you exert and test yourself for a while.”


“The Golden Rooster: stand on one leg and cock the head askew.

Simultaneously position your leg and center your fist.

Turn your back and assume the Reclined Ox stance, and drop both the arm and the leg in tandem from their elevated positions. Make contact and cry out "ku" unto the heavens.”

“The gentleman well versed in these arts has quick hands and legs like the wind;
I myself have the ability to whip my legs and smash things, as well as split heavy objects with my hands.”

“The Ambush Crouch posture: it is like using the hunting bow to lie in wait for a tiger;
To set the trap, uses small steps and you will be stable.

Next, release the trigger and unleash a few leg kicks;
The opponent receives the blows, becoming bewildered and endangered.”

“In the Crouched Tiger posture, angle the body off the center line and work the leg; Whenever the opponent engages me, I stretch out to the front.

When I see my opponent poised, his stance is not stable; Then I sweep his single supporting leg—the result is clear and decisive”

“If you meet a skillful opponent, grasp him and take him down;
It will be too fast for the opponent to feel.”

W. Rabbit
3/26/2015 9:30pm,
Some quotes of Qi's from Shahar's book, very interesting thoughts about forms from a general who knew all about "flowery" forms.

"without obvious postures or techniques, you will be effective with one move. If you do make the mistake of posturing and posing, you will be ineffective with ten moves"

Qi's contemporary generals said the same sort of things, that in order to be effective in combat, one had to go beyond the structures and forms taught early in the classroom to essentially "field train" their skill against opponents. For good HTH (quan) this meant moving naturally but unpredictably. Sounds right to me.

Shahar also points out the reason Qi removes the last chapter on hand combat is because as a veteran general with real experience he had a lot of both weapon and empty handed combat experience, knew what hand to hand skills really mattered in combat, and probably had a disdain for the younger crowd who were creating lots of new empty handed styles and fancy techniques and posturing just for the hell of it.

In his world one staff wielding Shaolin monk or one well trained Ming soldier should be able to dispatch ten such idiots with their fancypants forms.

Jack Rusher
3/28/2015 10:58am,
I like that he's writing these articles, but there are a number of factual problems with the shuaijiao one.

W. Rabbit
3/28/2015 1:51pm,
The usual mix of fact and fiction but with an honest vibe. People like this really need to learn to interact with others about their ideas instead of just firehosing them on to the net.