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View Full Version : Official Statement from Bullshido on the Jordan Tabor/Kit Dale Issue



Phrost
2/16/2015 6:37pm,
http://i.imgur.com/yQCN4Vk.jpg

Bullshido, as an organization, is solely committed to exposing and fighting bullshit.

Jordan Tabor was a core member of Bullshido for nearly a decade, having chosen to follow his own path in the last few years. While he was a member of our organization, we valued his principles, above all, his commitment to the idea that the Martial Arts are about fighting.

With that said, here is a list of things that are bullshit:

http://i.imgur.com/4V4BspL.jpg

1. Promoting yourself to black belt is bullshit.

http://i.imgur.com/njd0iiV.jpg

2. It is bullshit to challenge someone to a "fight", then stipulate restrictive rules for that challenge that include a substantial sum of money that only serves as a barrier to entry. Appropriately,one of the first things that Jordan pursued on Bullshido was calling bullshit on "ninja master" Ashida Kim's "$10,000 Challenge"; which was concocted specifically to prevent any actual challengers.

http://i.imgur.com/c94GaiI.jpg

3. Charging someone exorbitant fees to register as a black belt in your style is bullshit, especially if the sanctioning body is not providing any services remotely commensurate with the expense of registration, such as criminal background checking all registered members, providing insurance or other professional services, or setting high standards for membership beyond the ability to pay.

http://i.imgur.com/XcqMEUS.jpg

4. Point fighting as the primary focus of a Martial Art is bullshit. The more rules and limitations a style's competitive outlet has, the less it becomes about fighting and the more it becomes about sport and revenue. This is perfectly fine if your goal is to be an athlete and pursue skills specific to a sport. It's not fine if you still want to consider those skills to be relevant to situations where you do not have a referee.

So you see, there's a lot of bullshit in this one situation. Our job is to point it out, so we can all help put a stop to it together.

http://i.imgur.com/4fcvoJo.jpg

JudOWNED
2/16/2015 6:47pm,
Seems like it's 3-1 Jordan in that list.

Zapruder
2/16/2015 6:52pm,
I like

Tenebrous
2/16/2015 7:29pm,
The message I got from this is that salad is bullshit.

SmH
2/17/2015 3:43am,
I just wanted to point out that on Tabor's FAcebook page someone called him out on the video where he as Black Belt lost (by points) to a Purple Belt and he responds with "yeah i lost by points but i really only want to hurt people so he did get hurt because i hurt him on purpose so i count it as a win" and that is like the ultimate bullshit. He stepped into competition and deleberately ignored the rules and went out of his way just to hurt his opponent, at least this is what he claims. That'S the ultimate douchebaggery.

Ke?poFist
2/17/2015 7:52am,
While I feel it was unnecessary for Jordan to slag off on Dale, and that Dale should be respected for the champion that he is, Dale is the one who made this into a challenge. I re-read Jordan's initial post, and no where was he calling Dale out. Just like I don't get challenged by the Yankees when I say they're playing terrible, I wouldn't expect a money challenge from a fighter.

battlefields
2/17/2015 8:07am,
I find Kit amusing and entertaining along with informative, but I cringed when he made it a buy in challenge.

JudOWNED
2/17/2015 8:22am,
This whole situation is weird. There's definitely no reason for Dale to respond to a challenge from Jordan or to fight him. Dude is a successful competitor, and instructor. Probably against his best interest to fight some, to him, random guy from the Internet. But the whole "you have to put up 5000 dollars to fight me thing" is definitely a non-challenge. Functionally no different from Ashida Kim. He'd be better off saying, I'm a successful competitor and instructor. I don't do challenge matches with random Internet trolls. End of story.

As for the point fighting thing, maybe it's because I'm a judoka and already have to put up with a lot of wacky rules, but I don't see the big deal. Every type of sports combat has rules. Even in a submission only event, and I love Metamoris and Eddie Bravo Invitational, there are still rules. MMA which is closer to a real fight than a grappling only event, also has plenty of rules. So Jordan's complaint about point fighting falls short, to me. Shoot, everyone knows how restrictive and unrealistic the rules are for Olympic tae kwon do. But I still would have been far better off doing that than the so-called non-sport version (an itf variant) that I did. Because sports combat is effective for teaching you how to fight.

I mean, I guess I can understand what he said about how he uses position, and how that wouldn't score any points under IBJJF rules. But on the other hand, if you can't heel hook Dale under those rules, what makes you think you can do it under submission only rules?

BackFistMonkey
2/17/2015 9:06am,
This whole situation is weird. There's definitely no reason for Dale to respond to a challenge from Jordan or to fight him. Dude is a successful competitor, and instructor.

Doesn't matter who he is or what he accomplished... Kit Dale challenged Jordan.

Probably against his best interest to fight some, to him, random guy from the Internet. But the whole "you have to put up 5000 dollars to fight me thing" is definitely a non-challenge. Functionally no different from Ashida Kim. He'd be better off saying, I'm a successful competitor and instructor. I don't do challenge matches with random Internet trolls. End of story.

I agree up to the bullshit there at the end ...Kit challenged Jordan. Jordan critiqued Kit in a "stroking the fur the wrong way" manner so, Kit wants to roll and prove he is a beast and the top grappler who aint scared of no silly leg locks or Death and Dismember JuJitsu (DDJJ)

JudOWNED
2/17/2015 10:34am,
Well, if Kit challenged Jordan than that makes it even more lame that he's asking for 5k. Thought it was t'other way round.

ermghoti
2/19/2015 12:09pm,
Jordan: you would do yourself a huge favor if, when this topic comes up, you start off by referring to your post from 8/8/14 2:03 AM in this thread: http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/thread/2349659/White-knighting-on-the-atama-forum/?&page=22

Having followed this for about a year, this is the first time I've seen you tell your side chronologically, showing where you think the causes and effects lay, in one piece from beginning to end. Trying to extract the narrative from screen caps of texts and bits of message board entries is impossible, and when people have to work too hard to figure out what you're saying, they are going to start discounting you.

Wing-Kwan-Fu
2/19/2015 2:44pm,
Well, if Kit challenged Jordan than that makes it even more lame that he's asking for 5k. Thought it was t'other way round.

I think it makes it a little less lame, if Kit challenged and Jordan asked for money. At least it doesn't have the hypocrisy of demanding a fight while simultaneously working to prevent it.

Goju - Joe
2/19/2015 5:46pm,
I remember when challenges on Bullshido were entertaining and usually ended up with Sirc getting smacked in the face.

This ..... meh ...

The Villain
2/24/2015 11:01pm,
I just wanted to point out that on Tabor's FAcebook page someone called him out on the video where he as Black Belt lost (by points) to a Purple Belt and he responds with "yeah i lost by points but i really only want to hurt people so he did get hurt because i hurt him on purpose so i count it as a win" and that is like the ultimate bullshit. He stepped into competition and deleberately ignored the rules and went out of his way just to hurt his opponent, at least this is what he claims. That'S the ultimate douchebaggery.

Um, yeah. I can't do anything with points. If I were a boxer, going for the KO, instead of a decision, would you complain then? The boxer is going to deal out as much brain damage as possible, as efficiently as possible, until you stop fighting. I'm there to deal as much damage to your joints as possible, as efficiently as possible until you stop fighting. I see no issue with this. If this man did not want to get vaporized, he had the opportunity to surrender. He chose to take the damage instead, and most likely sustained a minor injury. I took no damage at all. I'm not concerned with the points.

The Villain
2/24/2015 11:02pm,
I think it makes it a little less lame, if Kit challenged and Jordan asked for money. At least it doesn't have the hypocrisy of demanding a fight while simultaneously working to prevent it.

It's Kit that wants the money, not me.

W. Rabbit
2/25/2015 5:17pm,
It's Kit that wants the money, not me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmHeP9Sve48