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Phrost
12/29/2014 3:10pm,
http://i.imgur.com/y6e1ZZE.jpg

Can you be both a Badass, and a BS-artist?

Chris Kyle is the subject of the feature film "American Sniper" currently in theaters. Revered for his tactical skills, Kyle achieved 160 confirmed kills in his sniper career. But according to a piece in the Washington Post, the former Navy SEAL liked to make wild boasts and tell exaggerated stories.


Like the one about how he and a bud went down to New Orleans following Hurricane Katrina and picked off dozens of bad guys. Or the one in which he took on two armed Texans bent on stealing his truck and shot them both dead. Or the one he told about former Minnesota governor Jesse “The Body” Ventura.

Kyle claimed to have punched out Ventura - himself a former Navy SEAL- over comments made in a discussion on the war.


“Scruff bowed up again,” Kyle claimed in “American Sniper.” “This time he swung. Being level-headed and calm can last only so long. I laid him out. Tables flew. Stuff happened. Scruff Face ended up on the floor. I left. Quickly. I have no way of knowing for sure, but rumor has it he showed up at [a SEAL] graduation with a black eye.”

He identified “Mr. Scruff Face” as Ventura in a later interview with Bill O’Reilly on Fox News and in an additional radio segment. “He told us we were killing innocent people over there, men, women, children, that we were all murderers,” Kyle, wearing a Punisher baseball hat, told a Sirius XM talk show. He added: “Then he said we deserved to lose a few guys. … I punched him in the face. Jesse Ventura, he’s an older guy. … He went down … He fell out of his wheelchair.”

Ventura successfully sued Kyle's estate for the defamation, and expressed regret at having to do so in the first place. But the reaction within much of the online military community to the suit, hinged around the fact that Ventura had the nerve to sue a war hero, not that Kyle had completely made up the story about Ventura.

http://i.imgur.com/kq0l8QC.jpg

The desire to look up to heroes runs strong in American culture; possibly because we have so few of them. And for others, the desire to be a hero themselves is a driving force in accomplishing great things; things such as Chris Kyle legitimately accomplished. Kyle certainly lived up to the title of "Badass", by anyone's standards. But is it possible that his drive to be one, caused him to exaggerate some of his stories?

Many of his claims, such as the one involving shooting 30 people from the roof of the Superdome, unlike his confirmed 160 in-theater sniper kills, are completely unverifiable. This is fairly typical of someone who exists within the Special Operations community, for obvious reasons. It should be noted, however, that instead of 160 kills, Kyle claimed 255.

The take-away is simple: heroes are still humans. If facts tarnish an image, it's only because that image wasn't worth being polished in the first place.

Washington Post Article - The ‘unverifiable’ legacy of Chris Kyle, the deadliest sniper in American history (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/30/the-complicated-but-unveriable-legacy-of-chris-kyle-the-deadliest-sniper-in-american-history/)

Devil
12/29/2014 4:10pm,
Well, hi Phrost! It's nice of you to join us.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=123333

Devil
12/29/2014 4:11pm,
In summary, here were my thoughts on the matter:

"I have a different take on it.

I don't fault the man for taking steps to clear his name publicly. Ventura said in court that he felt defamed, not because of the claims that Kyle punched him out but by the claims that he said fellow SEALS deserved to die.

I wouldn't allow anyone to say that about me either and get away with it. I don't automatically assume Kyle was telling the truth. He was a badass, but he was also kind of an attention whore. I don't take his word as the gospel.

What if Jesse Ventura is telling the truth? Obviously, the jury believed he was. To me it smells like a man sticking to his principles. He knew he would be raked over the coals for continuing the lawsuit after Kyle's death but he did it anyway - maybe because he had decided there was no way someone was going to say **** like this about him and get away with it, regardless of the heat he would take for defending himself.

As for dropping the suit when Kyle was killed - why would he? It's not his fault he died. Why not move forward against his estate? Regardless of what you believe about how the events took place, he had plenty of justification to hate Chris Kyle. The guy either defamed him or assaulted him. There's no way around that.

And it's not like he's suing some poor helpless widow. His estate should have plenty of money. American Sniper was a NY Times best seller. They're making a movie about him right now.

Too many people worship military figures like deities and act like they can do no wrong. Every time somebody says or does something other than praise them it launches a million facebook memes from people looking for their daily does of indignation.

Maybe the court got it right."

Devil
12/29/2014 4:14pm,
And this:

"Of secondary interest to me is the eagerness of people to align themselves with Kyle purely because of his battlefield rep. Chris Kyle was an interesting person. He was very, very skilled at killing people. I admire that - not because of 'Murica, **** yeah!, but because I admire people who are really good at ****. He was roughly the Lebron James equivalent of killing people with a rifle, which is pretty badass.

Chris Kyle also seemed like kind of an arrogant braggart. He never hesitated to tell the world exactly how badass he was. Take a look at some of the **** he claimed to have done. There's a history there of questionable claims. Like the rumors that he claimed to have killed a bunch of people in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. And the two assailants he claimed to have killed at a gas station in Texas that nobody has been able to confirm. There are other examples. Like I said, I wouldn't take what he said as the gospel.

To be fair, none of that means he was lying about Ventura. But again, when I weigh everything out the jury's decision makes me suspect Kyle was the person being untruthful in this case."

Devil
12/29/2014 4:54pm,
On a side note, 160 was his number of confirmed kills. It's possible that he killed 255. Unconfirmed kills are still dead.

Carlos Hathcock had 93 confirmed kills in Vietnam but I think he estimated his real number at around 200 if I remember correctly.

slamdunc
12/29/2014 4:58pm,
Chris Kyle was an interesting person. He was very, very skilled at killing people. I admire that - not because of 'Murica, **** yeah!, but because I admire people who are really good at ****. He was roughly the Lebron James equivalent of killing people with a rifle, which is pretty badass.On this point, I will agree with you 100%. I have much respect for people who are dedicated and excel at what they do.

Phrost
12/29/2014 5:04pm,
Well, hi Phrost! It's nice of you to join us.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=123333

News thread!

Sam Browning
12/29/2014 6:07pm,
http://i.imgur.com/y6e1ZZE.jpg

Can you be both a Badass, and a BS-artist?

Chris Kyle is the subject of the feature film "American Sniper" currently in theaters. Revered for his tactical skills, Kyle achieved 160 confirmed kills in his sniper career. But according to a piece in the Washington Post, the former Navy SEAL liked to make wild boasts and tell exaggerated stories.



Kyle claimed to have punched out Ventura - himself a former Navy SEAL- over comments made in a discussion on the war.



Ventura successfully sued Kyle's estate for the defamation, and expressed regret at having to do so in the first place. But the reaction within much of the online military community to the suit, hinged around the fact that Ventura had the nerve to sue a war hero, not that Kyle had completely made up the story about Ventura.

http://i.imgur.com/kq0l8QC.jpg

The desire to look up to heroes runs strong in American culture; possibly because we have so few of them. And for others, the desire to be a hero themselves is a driving force in accomplishing great things; things such as Chris Kyle legitimately accomplished. Kyle certainly lived up to the title of "Badass", by anyone's standards. But is it possible that his drive to be one, caused him to exaggerate some of his stories?

Many of his claims, such as the one involving shooting 30 people from the roof of the Superdome, unlike his confirmed 160 in-theater sniper kills, are completely unverifiable. This is fairly typical of someone who exists within the Special Operations community, for obvious reasons. It should be noted, however, that instead of 160 kills, Kyle claimed 255.

The take-away is simple: heroes are still humans. If facts tarnish an image, it's only because that image wasn't worth being polished in the first place.

Washington Post Article - The ‘unverifiable’ legacy of Chris Kyle, the deadliest sniper in American history (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/30/the-complicated-but-unveriable-legacy-of-chris-kyle-the-deadliest-sniper-in-american-history/)

I should first say that I don't know whether Kyle claimed he shot 30 people from the Superdome, since the participants to whom he told those stories remain anonymous in the original WP article. However, it would be almost impossible for him to shoot 30 people within say 1000 yards of the Superdome with a high powered rifle, and not have this pile eventually be discovered by relief workers and appear in the press coverage. High power rifle bullets leave very distinct marks, and someone on the ground would have noticed their common features. "Madman Sniper haunts NO, film at 11!"

BKR
12/29/2014 6:20pm,
I should first say that I don't know whether Kyle claimed he shot 30 people from the Superdome, since the participants to whom he told those stories remain anonymous in the original WP article. However, it would be almost impossible for him to shoot 30 people within say 1000 yards of the Superdome with a high powered rifle, and not have this pile eventually be discovered by relief workers and appear in the press coverage. High power rifle bullets leave very distinct marks, and someone on the ground would have noticed their common features. "Madman Sniper haunts NO, film at 11!"

Having lived in New Orleans for 15 years (left before Katrina,fortunately !), just getting into New Orleans just before are during Katrina would have been really difficult. Let alone getting on top of the Superdome...field of fire isn't so great, either, from the top at least.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/43/97751131_e51cbc4622_z.jpg?zz=1

It is Fake
12/29/2014 6:47pm,
Whatever, I can't wait to see the military propaganda movie.
Just like I couldn't wait for the next military propaganda based Call of Duty game.