Does anyone practice submissions for when your opponent turtles? I'm specifically thinking about Judo for when an opponent turtles just to make the ref stand you back up. If there was a quick submission I could pull from there it would be a big advantage.

Crossface to free up an arm for the armbar. Or crossface and try to get an RNC. Most of the time I can't pull anything off so quickly though..

Is crossfacing allowed in competition judo though?

Also you can't attack the legs in Judo...

I was just told last Saturday that a cross-face isn't allowed in competition judo, HOWEVER, a cool alternative is to work for getting the nearside leg hook in WHILE AT THE SAME TIME going for a half-nelson to turn the guy, just like in wrestling. If the ref sees that you're working for the move and the guy turtling doesn't look totally defensive, you might be set.

With the gi, clock choke is the shznit.

No gi - I like setting up guillotines very securely while my opponent is in turtle then pulling my guard.

Can you elaborate on the clock choke from a tight turtle?

There is a rolling choke I learned in L.A. that is awsome. I showed Omega it. Grab his opposite lapel step you right leg over him (if you are on his left side) grab his belt and do a forward roll at about a 45 degree angle. If you can hook his left arm with your leg. CHOKE!

Another is you grab you opponents lapel of the side you are on. Take your other arm and jam the elbow on the against the side of his neck on the opposite side. Sit out and walk around. Its a choke or neck crank depending on if he fights it or not.

Not allowed in Judo but this is one of my favorites that was just shown in GRAPPLING. Its the BANNA SPLIT.(I used to call it the ASIA XTREME!:D Alot of guys didn't know this move, the wrestlers did of course) From his left side get a grapvine his left leg with ou left leg. Reach over or under to his opposite leg with your arms. Fall back and figure 4 your legs. Crankand make a wish.

"There is a rolling choke I learned in L.A. that is awsome. I showed Omega it. Grab his opposite lapel step you right leg over him (if you are on his left side) grab his belt and do a forward roll at about a 45 degree angle. If you can hook his left arm with your leg. CHOKE!"

Does this have a name so I could find some pictures, it sounds good but I'm not really getting it.

One of our BJJers may have a name for it but non was mentioned when we trained it.

The second one I mentionde is a CLOCK CHOKE variation. The only difference is that you grab his other lapel instead of using the elbow.

I have used that choke before too.
My favorite way is to just turn a turtle...because like a real turtle, people like that are helpless on thier back...half nelson them from the side, reach across to the opposite arm, and drive foward...you can crank the **** out of thier neck if they resist and it looks legal.

1. Get ahold of one side of the gi lapel, same-side hand high up and opposite-side hand lower down. Without sliding your hands up and down the lapel, bring the same-side hand, lapel included, over to the other side of the neck. Now continue pulling with that hand down and towards the same-side again while pulling down with the opposide-side hand. Choke him like you're wringing a towel; it should cut blood, not air.
Combine this with a forward drag since you do it from infront of his head. Make him think about his base and not his neck.

2. From the right/left side, pull up on the back of his gi collar with your right/left hand after you work your left/right hand over his left/right shoulder and grab the right/left lapel. Yank him up and slide the right/left hand rightwise/leftwise around his neck like you were going to put him in a headlock, but move around and grab the left/right lapel high with your hand. Now swing your legs out infront of him like you were in kesa gatame but only holding onto his head. Instant sliding collar choke with all your weight on his shoulders and head.


Forgive me if this is hard to visualize, I only just learned those two.

Omega showed us something really simple at the NorCal throwdown. If you can get behind them, grab them by the shoulders (on the side not the top) and yank. They pop up and you apply a rear naked or other choke of your choice. It was very hard ot stay turtled.

I'm sure he can explain it better.

Various rolling armbars. I haven't seen any good online explanations, and they're too complex. Get Neil Adams' Armbars book. Or get the Mike Swain Juji Gatame video (most of the armbars are from the turtle). Or get the Russian Judo book. Also, clock choke is da bomb. Go to www.bjj.org/techniques and the show a number of clock chokes. Oh yeah or you can do side triangle chokes. Get Kashiwazaki's "Shimewaza" book.

This reminds me I have to add an "attacking the turtle" section for my technique site. Thanks :)

Roberto, how about an "answer my PM" section :)

Ah, judo turtling. I like to do this a lot because I'm a gigantic wuss when I play judo.


For one thing, even if someone is being defensive with their lapels you can often succeed in getting your mitts in there for a choke. You just gotta be mean. SLIDE your knuckles down the sweaty sides of their neck, get in there deep, and do what you gotta do for some kind of rear choke.

The key is to SLIDE those knuckles really hard on the neck so it hurts a lot and distracts the guy. Once a really big guy sat on my back and did that in order to get a big choke on me. The SLIDE was sufficiently painful that I made noise.


I don't know about submits per se but you can often roll the guy out of the turtle. Just crouch on one side of him, extend one of your legs and put it right in front of his head, and then use your arms to grab his belt and flip him on his back over your leg. Basically his head gets stuck against your leg and as a result his body ends up flipping over frontwards. If they don't know what you're doing or you do it fast this usually works. It might sound a little unlikely but I've gotten it to work in many cases.