Please read the article again. Each admission is tied to a specific page number. Pre-deposition The' claimed he taught an art named Shaolin Do which he had been taught to him as Shaolin Do in Indonesia. That turned out to be untrue. Then he claimed that his material was from the Shaolin Temple through Grandmaster E. It turns out he made up many of the forms he variously implied or claimed were ancient. Finally he admitted that his brother was telling his students that their instructor was actually their grandfather indicating he did not tell the truth about Grandmaster E.

I doubt you will accept this, but you should ask The' why a day or two after the deposition he suddenly settled his lawsuit. I would be very interested in what he would say on the record.

I read the entire transcript, So I will repond to your points as you presented them. Sin Claimed to have learned Shaolin Kung Fu from Master Ie, I am assuming that you now say thats true,??? He changed the Name to Shaolin Do, OK big deal, He made up short forms/kata 1-30, and a few of the lower belt long forms, not a big surprise, thats why they are so different any other ShaolinDo material, He also claimed that the other parts of the material were original/classical Shaolin forms, His answers were confusing on exactly what percentage of which was what. As for the Ie grandfather issue, Haing says he was, Sin says He wasn't so that one still isnt cleared up.

Finally as for the "Big Question" why did he settle? I would dare to say that each party comprimised and they found a mid point where both parties satisfied, thats why they call it a "SETTLEMENT" which is much different from dropping the complaint which you choose to believe happened.

And after all that I say this WHO CARES, Who cares what he made up and what he didn't, who cares if and when he changed the name. who cares if Ie was his grandfather or not.

What I and about 10,000 other practitioners care about is 1. Sin is a very nice man. 2. Shaolin Do is fun. 3. Its good exercise 4. It works ( As a Parole Officer I have used many of the Chin Na, self defense, and Street techniques in order to subdue combative subjects on many occastions) regardless of when or by whom it was created. So go ahead, "spread the word" conduct your witch hunt because in the end, most people have more important things to worry about.

I read the entire transcript, So I will repond to your points as you presented them. Sin Claimed to have learned Shaolin Kung Fu from Master Ie, I am assuming that you now say thats true,??? He changed the Name to Shaolin Do, OK big deal, He made up short forms/kata 1-30, and a few of the lower belt long forms, not a big surprise, thats why they are so different any other ShaolinDo material, He also claimed that the other parts of the material were original/classical Shaolin forms, His answers were confusing on exactly what percentage of which was what. As for the Ie grandfather issue, Haing says he was, Sin says He wasn't so that one still isnt cleared up.

Finally as for the "Big Question" why did he settle? I would dare to say that each party comprimised and they found a mid point where both parties satisfied, thats why they call it a "SETTLEMENT" which is much different from dropping the complaint which you choose to believe happened.

And after all that I say this WHO CARES, Who cares what he made up and what he didn't, who cares if and when he changed the name. who cares if Ie was his grandfather or not.

What I and about 10,000 other practitioners care about is 1. Sin is a very nice man. 2. Shaolin Do is fun. 3. Its good exercise 4. It works ( As a Parole Officer I have used many of the Chin Na, self defense, and Street techniques in order to subdue combative subjects on many occastions) regardless of when or by whom it was created. So go ahead, "spread the word" conduct your witch hunt because in the end, most people have more important things to worry about.

1) I do not know if Master Ie existed and was The's teacher as previously described by The'. Given that Sin The' admits his brother who was also a SD teacher says that they actually learned from their grandfather, I believe that there is substantial evidence that The' is not telling the full truth about his lineage.

2) The transcript reveals that The' agrees that Shaolin Kung Fu is not synomous with Shaolin Do. Assuming that The' actually studied Shaolin Kung Fu in Indonesia, (and his art has a lot of trappings of Karate) then that damages his claim that he teaches an ancient art, as verses a synthesis art. There is no shame in teaching the latter, the problem is when you lay claim to the Shaolin Temple and you are really sharing something that is different.

3) On the issue of the kata, see the attached Federal court decision from Tennessee where the Defendant indicated that The' told him the forms he was teaching were ancient and the record in this case, and in this earlier case often indicated otherwise. If a MA teacher tells me that it's an ancient form, as a student I would want him to tell me the truth, though you are free to disagree.

4) The settlement happened literally several days after the deposition, and within a short time after The' lost his crucial motion for a preliminary injunction. The record indicates he did not recover any costs or legal fees from the defendant. Given his demands for an injunction, large monitary damages, and legal fees, it looks like The' chose to end his action immediately without achieving these goals. Of course if you would like to share a copy of their written Settlement Agreement I would be happy to reconsider this issue. Please call Mr. The' and ask him to provide you with this copy which you can post here.

5) You don't have to care, but the documents from this case and the Tennessee one, provide a facinating look into the historic pedigree of another art that claims an immediate lineage to the Shaolin temple. As often happens, this lineage has been cast in doubt by The's own words.

6) "Sin is a very nice man". Gerry Spence, whose work you may be familar with says that nice is a mannerism and not a character trait. Ethical compassionate people can be "nice", so can car salesman, and lawyers regardless of their alterior motivations and future planned actions. So I will simply observe that this personal observation means nothing to us outside the art.

7) Nope, it wasn't a witch-hunt, full copies of all court documents that were used in the writeups were provided on this website including The's complete complaint and declaration which tell his side of this conflict. Besides there are no claims here on Bullshido that The' has anything to do with the Prince of Darkness. :)

Take care

master leonard has issued a statement on his website at sinthe.com about all of this

Yes, I read that open letter. What he says about the early days and the students being told that SKT modified certain techniques to fit the Westerners so they could start small/slow is accurate. I remember being told that in 1970 by Leonard and some others (Fernandez, Johnson, Brown, Caudill). We were not told how extensive the "modified" techniques went into the curriculum.

If you go to this page and scroll down to the letter announcement.

http://www.shaolin-do.com/

OMG I went on sinthe.com and almost pissed myself laughing at work! I read the part about sandburn training

"Young Sin was drawn to the martial arts and actually began training (http://sinthe.com/lineage.php#) in a lost art known as sandburn training at a very young age. In sandburn training, practitioners treat their hands with special (http://sinthe.com/lineage.php#) medicine and then place them in buckets of heated sand. Over time, the sand is made hotter and the length of time one's hands are submerged is increased. This training toughens the hands but also makes the skin dangerous for other humans to touch, hence its attractiveness to martial artists. Sin Thé stopped the training after a sandburn master accidently picked up his grandchild without special gloves and the baby was killed. This master and all of his colleauges stopped teaching and all of their students were dismissed."

First of all how does sticking your hands in hot sand make you more dangerous to other humans. Oh I forgot... it must be the special medicine..... Lol. But luckily nobody knows what this special medicine is and the grandmaster dismissed all his students so that nobody could ever verify this outrageous load of BS.

@
superninjagod (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/member.php?u=71186) ...if you got to read the thread about the investigation into SKT, you would be able to fill in the blanks. It has attached documents from depositions and court cases that give quite a bit of background on this subject. For the non-Koolaid drinkers, the web site you visited is a source of contention and amusement.

Thank you investigators. I started out in Shaolin-Do but bullshido and the claims on SKT's various websites helped me to realize it wasn't what it claimed to be.

It is amazing how many fake CMA there are out there. A big tell usually is when they mix it up with JMA terms and weapons, like ending with Do, usually used by JMA like Judo, Karate-do, Kendo, and rarely used by any CMA, especially those who claim to be of ancient origin. Some even wear GIs and have katana forms

See the thing is, it would be fine if he told the truth. All he had to say "I learned a hybrid in Indonesia." As someone else used to say, they felt it was a Kung Tao art. Take away the direct tie to Shaolin, Baby melting, and hairy GrandMaster, and 900+ forms no one would really care.

Wow...this is hilarious. I have been training in the Martial Arts for over 40 years, and my primary style is Shaolin Do. I started in the 70's, when both brothers were still together, and everything EM Leonard is saying is absolutely true.
I have black belts in Shotokan Katate, ninjutsu under Stephen Hayes, and fought in the PKA. I've trained with many, many incredible and credited teachers, and none of them hold a candle to GM Sin, or Hsiang for that matter. The only one who came close was Dr Masaaki Hatsumi, the GM of Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu. GM Sin is probably even more gifted than Dr Hatsumi, based on my experience. He has taken students to Indonesia, where they've met and trained with descendants from GM Ie's school.
GM Sin is one of the best in the world, and a Grandmaster...he can create forms, add forms, training methods, whatever the hell he wants to do. He can pass down whatever stories and legends he wants as well. Has anyone seen the Ip Man movies? Totally fictional...who cares? I think GM Sin embodies the true Chinese martial arts. Anyone who knows him knows this to be true. All of you Internet trolls hiding behind your keyboards need to train more, talk trash less.

I have black belts in Shotokan Katate, ninjutsu under Stephen Hayes, and fought in the PKA. I've trained with many, many incredible and credited teachers, and none of them hold a candle to GM Sin, or Hsiang for that matter. The only one who came close was Dr Masaaki Hatsumi, the GM of Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu. GM Sin is probably even more gifted than Dr Hatsumi, based on my experience. Oh boy Hatsumi is your appeal to authority? Ha ha hahahahahaaa.....

Welcome troll, how are you doing? Listen Up is the same as my fake name. Therefore, you are hiding behind your keyboard as well.

Oh and do us all a favor and use your old account. KTHXBAI.

Nice It is Fake...you and I have had this conversation before. My name is Duane Tankersley, I invited you to my home in Charleston, SC.
You always start off so confrontational. I am more than willing to test my skills against anyone. I still train 6 days a week. My claim to authority is myself and my experiences...all of which I'm willing to back up.

Nice It is Fake...you and I have had this conversation before. My name is Duane Tankersley, I invited you to my home in Charleston, SC.
You always start off so confrontational. I am more than willing to test my skills against anyone. I still train 6 days a week. My claim to authority is myself and my experiences...all of which I'm willing to back up.
Yes, then use your old account. Actually, you started confrontational.

All of you Internet trolls hiding behind your keyboards need to train more, talk trash less. Now, can you refute anything? No? Okay so, your whole point is to become angry, again, whine and tell people to train. Yes, he can make up anything he wants, and there is a document confirming that he did just that, you know, after all of your and other protestations IT WAS DA REAL. Now, it is "OMG so what, he can do what he wants?" "Ninjas and Shaolin-do are da greatest"

As many of us say all of the time, enjoy what you do, but don't get butt-hurt when people call your stories lies when you talk a HUGE game.

I am more than willing to test my skills against anyone. I still train 6 days a week.
How can your skills refute the facts of this case?

I repeat my offer to come to my home and train...otherwise shut the hell up.
So no hiding here, pal. I've also told you my real name and address, so...
I created a new name because it was easier than remembering the old.
You should go back and read all of our past conversations....you are the one lacking in experience and training my friend.