So i've been training 3x a week and lifting 3x a week. I've been following stronglifts 5x5 and while far from having beast strength, when I lift tomorrow im planning on squatting 90, benching 52.5 and rowing 52.5. My deadlift is at 95 and my overhead press at 40. These numbers are slowly but surely increasing.

As far as application in martial arts (sport or otherwise), how do you know when you should stop lifting for strength gains and work more on maintenance or work more on explosive lifts like cleans and snatches or plyometric exercises?

When you feel that lifting is impeding your ability to train effectively. But if you're looking for specific goals, 1xBW overhead, 1.5xBW bench, 2xBW squat and 2.5xBW deads are typical goals for lifting. If you're training hard and lifting you should make sure to eat enough.

But if you're looking for specific goals, 1xBW overhead, 1.5xBW bench, 2xBW squat and 2.5xBW deads are typical goals for lifting.

And totally meaningless. It's much easier for a lighter athlete to lift bodyweight multiples than a heavy one. There's some kind of diminishing returns.

If you want to get explosive why not just start training for that? If you do decide to do snatch,cleans or jerks they're very technical lifts so the more practice you can get the better.

You should stop lifting before you are too muscle bound to wipe.

First, I want to ask what specifically concerns you about continuing lifting....is there something specific you are concerned about based on something you are currently experiencing?

Personally I completely mix up my training focus every three, or so, weeks. For example, I will do 5x5 stronglifts for a few weeks, then transition to high-enerygy circuit training (like Crossfit, but not; lots of plyo, pullups, dips, pistol squats, box jumps, climbing, etc). After a few weeks of that I transition to isolation workouts (the typical arms day, chest day, back day, etc....thought I usually include an explosives day during isolation training as well). I supplement this with running; which I try to do everyday. My goal is to do at least some kind of running everyday, regardless of distance, and to mix it up. So maybe I go 7 miles one day, the next day do a .5 mile warm up then like 20 hill repeats, then maybe hit the track for some 100m and 400m repeats, then like a 3 mi run, etc, etc.

I rest when I feel I need to, maybe 1-2 days a week. Sleep, diet, and rest can't be overemphasized for those working out regularly. Gotta have that recovery time.

Oh yeah, I treat core like another muscle group...I smoke-check my abs about once a week, but don't directly work them every day, or every other day, like some do.

I rarely just do 'maintenance' workouts...if I do, I consider it a rest day. I always try to legitimately challenge myself in the gym, do stuff I didn't think I could, or continue when I didn't think I could. Needless to say it help to go with friends when doing that.

I did stronglifts for about a year following the program religiously. Eventually I got to the point where I couldn't push past a plateau.

I tried the methods layed out in the program decreasing by 10% (if I remember correctly first) than building back up, I still got stuck then I decreased by 30% and worked back up and plateaued again. I believe I tried this more than one time with no luck at pushing past my PR. Eventually due to my schedule I had to move on to a program that I could knock out in 30mins or less.

That is my experience with stronglifts. Perhaps I wasn't eating enough or maybe I was working too much and not resting enough between a busy school and work schedule. Eventually i'll try stronglifts again and hopefully break my previous PRs. As far as results? My legs gained quite a bit of size as i'd never done any leg work like that before but I don't feel like the rest of my upper body appearance changed very much but I did increase my strength and what I could lift by quite a lot.

And totally meaningless. It's much easier for a lighter athlete to lift bodyweight multiples than a heavy one. There's some kind of diminishing returns.
Those multiplies really aren't that strong however, so that's more of a starting goal then the end goal. It'd be different if they were incredibly hard but anyone reasonably training for a year should be able to blow those out of the water.


Eventually i'll try stronglifts again and hopefully break my previous PRs. As far as results? My legs gained quite a bit of size as i'd never done any leg work like that before but I don't feel like the rest of my upper body appearance changed very much but I did increase my strength and what I could lift by quite a lot.
It sounds like you'd have a lot more effective time with Starting Strength. The 3rd edition of that book just came out and most people's experience with it is that it will get you stronger much faster. It is more of a lifestyle for awhile though, due to the caloric/sleep requirements, but you'll likely return superior results. It's also faster, although if you're looking for a 30 minute 3x week program you probably aren't going to succeed at getting too much stronger.

Those multiplies really aren't that strong however, so that's more of a starting goal then the end goal. It'd be different if they were incredibly hard but anyone reasonably training for a year should be able to blow those out of the water.

That's absurd, if you reached those multiples in less than a year of training without juice then you have great natural aptitude, especially for anybody approaching or exceeding 200lbs in body weight.

Those multiplies really aren't that strong however, so that's more of a starting goal then the end goal. It'd be different if they were incredibly hard but anyone reasonably training for a year should be able to blow those out of the water.


It sounds like you'd have a lot more effective time with Starting Strength. The 3rd edition of that book just came out and most people's experience with it is that it will get you stronger much faster. It is more of a lifestyle for awhile though, due to the caloric/sleep requirements, but you'll likely return superior results. It's also faster, although if you're looking for a 30 minute 3x week program you probably aren't going to succeed at getting too much stronger.

Thanks for the advice. I'll check out the newest addition of Starting Strength. I'm not limited to 30min workouts anymore now that i'm done with school. I am rehabbing a broken patella though so i'll have to ease into full body lifts.

I've just started doing strict knees behind the toes squats with the bar through the Randy couture workout. Which I find quite easy starting w/ the bar but I can see it getting hard as the weight is added. I'm still not very satisfied with the workout though as I can't find information on how to properly add weight, deal with plateaus, and properly modify the plan. I do like that it seems decent for getting back into a full body workout after about three months off of my injured leg.

That's absurd, if you reached those multiples in less than a year of training without juice then you have great natural aptitude, especially for anybody approaching or exceeding 200lbs in body weight.
I've been training for 4 months and am 80% there (granted its harder the further you go). My progress is a little slower then the average person on Starting Strength as far as I know. I mean don't get me wrong, its extremely strong compared to the average person, but as far as the professionals go it really is the bare minimum.

As far as application in martial arts (sport or otherwise), how do you know when you should stop lifting for strength gains

Never.


...and work more on maintenance or work more on explosive lifts like cleans and snatches or plyometric exercises?

Never stop.


Also: LOL @ asking these questions given your current regimen and totals.

Those multiplies really aren't that strong however, so that's more of a starting goal then the end goal. It'd be different if they were incredibly hard but anyone reasonably training for a year should be able to blow those out of the water.
If you can press your bodyweight over your head within a year, and weigh more than 75kg, then you're a fucking caveman; let alone squatting 2xbodyweight.

A year? You're fucking stoned mate.

I've been training for 4 months and am 80% there (granted its harder the further you go). My progress is a little slower then the average person on Starting Strength as far as I know. I mean don't get me wrong, its extremely strong compared to the average person, but as far as the professionals go it really is the bare minimum.

Study the strength standards charts on this reputable site:-

exrx.net

You either

a) have massive natural aptitude (It's possible. I progressed through the 'intermediate' sections quite quickly. I'm naturally heavily built with thick arms and shoulders, but I don't for one minute believe that the multiples you think are normal are commonplace in that timeframe)

or

b) Are lifting with horrible form/using screwy weights/somehow kidding yourself as to how strong you really are.

Most people in the gym never come close to being able to press their own bodyweight above their head whilst standing. Not even close.

Study the strength standards charts on this reputable site:-

exrx.net

You either

a) have massive natural aptitude (It's possible. I progressed through the 'intermediate' sections quite quickly. I'm naturally heavily built with thick arms and shoulders, but I don't for one minute believe that the multiples you think are normal are commonplace in that timeframe)

or

b) Are lifting with horrible form/using screwy weights/somehow kidding yourself as to how strong you really are.

Most people in the gym never come close to being able to press their own bodyweight above their head whilst standing. Not even close.

This.

I'm naturally stocky and progressed very quickly on the stronglifts program, and it still took me well over a year to get a 1xbw press.

Of course it's possible you're simply the next hercules, but I find it hard to believe you'd get there that quickly.

And totally meaningless. It's much easier for a lighter athlete to lift bodyweight multiples than a heavy one. There's some kind of diminishing returns.


Damn right. Little guys who weigh 150lbs can crank out pullups far faster and in greater numbers than I can at 220lbs. While I can bench about 250lbs at this point, a friend at 150lbs is just not capable of it. Moving your own weight around is a somewhat different game than just moving large objects. My small friend was a Marine and he obviously made the cut despite having less raw strength.

I'm currently a solid 80lbs below my bodyweight for standing overhead press with free weights if I want to be safe and do clean reps. And it's a damn slow crawl to improve that lately. MMAMickey (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/member.php?u=51365) is right. If I could do my weight, I'd be a beast. This is 3 years in from an admittedly somewhat weak-for-my-size start.

But multiples of body weight is a meaningless benchmark taken by itself. Smaller people will be able to do greater percentages, square-cube law and all. Look at it this way: the monsters that can bench around 800-900lbs? Strongest humans in the world? That's only around 2.25 to 3 times their body weight.

- Coeloptera

There are a few misconceptions on this thread. Firstly to the guy who has reached 80% of his weight goal, well done but getting the next 20% is damn hard. I am maybe 90-95% of my goals and fighting hard to get there but progress is a lot slower. Generally, the more advanced you are the harder it is to gain in general. Talk about the bodyweight equivalent standards posted as being easy once you have actually done them.

The assumption that bodyweight work does not carry over to weights is not true and have proved this on my self. Yes, endless pushups and pullups dont build max strength. As an example work up to a controlled full range handstand pushup (hands to shoulders) and see if you can overhead press your bodyweight equivalent. Provided you have worked the rest of your body, especially your core you probably will.

The fact that big guys find it hard to do things like pullups is a good reason to do them, don't you think. Also, "only 2.25 to 3 x bodyweight", LOL.