Te No Kage!
The TLC 10 most thread got me thinking about something else...
Who has ever witnessed a school challenge? In that someone from outside your school comes in to challenge your school/teacher/art etc.? I've never seen it myself, but I've heard of it. Here in Panama City I was told of challenges between ATA TKD and Yoshukai Karate. In my hometown of Springfield, IL, I heard about challenges between TKD schools, trying to prove whose the best. I've also read stories of challenges to aikido, judo, BJJ, and so on. For some reason it reminds me of the Chinese Connection with Bruce Lee when he's nunchuking all those Japanese guys in the feet. Hilarious!
Well, lmao, a certain Tae Kwon Do point sparring Olympic world bullshido champion came to our school, and after a much heated debate with my Kru challenged one of our amateur fighters. He made up so much bs such as wearing shin guards and chest gear, no cup (WTF), and forearm guards. Needless to say our fighter won, it was rather entertaining since it looked like they were football players with the gear ^^.
I think challenges are more rare than most people think. I've never witnessed one and I always assumed they were something that happened back before I was born.
Then I watched a tape with vintage footage of Ed Parker and Chuck Sullivan training in the early 1960's. Ed Parker had already passed away and the tape was narrated by Ed Parker Jr. and Chuck. Jr. asked something about what it was like in the "old days" when people would come in off the street and challenge Parker at his school. Chuck said that nothing like that ever happened.
The closest thing I ever saw to a real "challenge" was a full contact fight between a instructor at my school and a student that thought using control in sparring was for wimps. He was hurting other students and when told to stop, he refused. My instructor said if he wanted to have a full contact fight it could arranged. The guy fought two 3 min rounds with instructor who has some pro kickboxing experience and then quit.
In my 6 or so years of training, I've only seen one challenge match fought. I've seen some threats from the peanut gallery and some scathing comments slung back and forth across message boards, but I've only seen one mook actually show up at a rival school and successfully pick a fight. It was at a Shaolin-Do school, and one of our mid-ranking students demolished him, so he must have been pretty sad. That way back at the beginning of my training days.
I thought about challenging a TKD school one time, but my friend goes there and I didn't want to piss him off. It would have been fun, they're second degree black belt (whom they praised and worshipped) was no older than I am now (17) and my 12 year old cousin who just started at our school looked like he could kick this guys ass. There was some **** talk between him and me at a demonstration I visited (for laughs), and then the buddy I knew from that school intervened and stopped us.
damn...now that I talk about it, maybe I should go back and see if my buddy is gone.
I have never seen a challenge but have always heard about them.
3 reasonable explaination of a "challenge"
45% are friendly sparring between differnent styles but since you heard through 10 people it has changed to an unfriendly duel of honor and glory.
50% are made up by disgruntled students who are afraid that the style in town is better so they make up feel good stories about their instructors and their schools.
5% are real challenges that were made by experienced practitioners or masters that are both physically and mentally prepared for a full contact fight in a non-violent arrangement to test their strengths and learn from their equally matched peers.
I was studing karate at RAF Lakenheath with Nelson Reyes in 1992 when the local Kuk Sool Won instructor, Darren Heart, came in and callenged Nelson to a fight after myself and a few other students left training with Darren to train with Nelson. Nelson offered to meat him in a match at a kickboxing event a month down the line, Darren didn't accept. That was the only outright challenge I've seen.
I've seen, and had to deal with, guys from other styles coming to a class, asking to work out, then attempting to blindside or suprise me or my instructor. They are dealt with firmly and told they are more than welcome to train with us, but don't try that again. More often then not, they are TKD blackbelts for some reason.
I've seen some people come into schools for challenge matches (usually very very drunk rednecks), but at every place I've ever trained they were just asked to leave. We did agree that we would let them spar with us if they took an introductory class though. So we had a fair share of idiots who would agree to that. They almost never came back. One or two though signed up after getting their asses handed to them. I wish I could see a challenge match at my current school. :)
I read about a few in Joko Ninomiya (the founder of Enshin)'s book, My Journey in Karate, apparently he had quite a few when he was trying to get established in the US, and even started a few in Japan.
I know that the Machado’s used to get a lot of people coming in a challenging them in the early years. I think the most high-profile match was when Bart Vale came in with Bob Wall and had a fight with Rigan. Bob was telling Rigan it was just going to be grappling, but then Bart threw punches and kicks before Rigan took him down and broke his arm.
I've seen it a few times, vargas made a thread about one that him and I participated in awhile ago.
I wonder what it was like back in the days? back in the days = 100 - 200 yrs ago. in china, japan, etc. has there been any real documentation of kung-fu challanges that went on then? other than oral history and stories...anyone know of any books?
Check out that book by Robert W. Smith titled Chinese Boxing: Masters and Methods (http://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/detail/spacer.gif). It may or may not have stories (more then likely it does).
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