Moe: I want to start training; what are the "good" styles?

Larry: Well Muaythai, BJJ, wrestling if you're young enough, Judo, Sambo... those are all good.

Moe: Can I go once a week and get good?

Larry: Not really. Minimum twice a week.

Moe: There's a gym near me that teaches "MMA". Is that good?

Larry: Yes, that's fine.

(one month later)

Larry: How's your training going?

Moe: It's great! I go twice a week, just like you recommended, once to striking, and on ce to grappling. I'm hoping to get really good!

Larry: (facepalm)

Seems to me "MMA" can be an excuse to train half as much as you should be. Unless you're training full time like the pros of course.

If a dude does 4 years of MT, and then gets his BJJ purple in 5, that's IMO a dangerous person. How many are willing to train 9 years of "MMA" before thinking they are just as well trained?

So your gripe is what exactly?

I don't have a gripe; I see a lot of people training just kickboxing, just BJJ, and just MMA. The people in kickboxing get better, the people in BJJ get better, and the people doing just MMA really don't improve at the same rate at all. It occurred to me, even though they are in the gym 3 days a week, that's only seems adequate, but it's an illusion; a way of feeling like you accomplished in 3 days what should have taken 6.

It's not a gripe to point out that the standard notions of how long you should be in the gym apply to a single style and should get at least doubled in a mixed art. Either that or expect glacial progress on multiple fronts.

Yes... and?

Probably has more to do with the gym itself, instructors, sparring partners actual time working ect.

I agree. Unless they focus on striking for example, and mostly take down defense and maybe some basic wrestling. It is realy hard being that good at so many disiplins at once, unless you go a minimum of 4 to 5 times a week. Even in boxing we drill alot of the same stuff over and over again because its fucking nescesery if you realy want it to become a reflex. I dont do MMA but we have a Jujitsu (the shity Japanese kind) group training in our gym, and they train basicly on everything from striking to grapling and even wepuns, needles to say that at twice a week you dont see alot of progression from them. We meet once a month on friday to spar, in MMA stile, and its sad to see that even in their so cold domain, which is grappling i sopose, they suck, and dont get better. I told their trainer (some what of a freind), that in my opinion he should stick to the more judo stuff, maybe add some basic striking defenses but nothing more for a while. If you are limited by time, stick to one thing so at list you will be good enough in something.

Moe: I want to start training; what are the "good" styles?

Larry: Well Muaythai, BJJ, wrestling if you're young enough, Judo, Sambo... those are all good.

Moe: Can I go once a week and get good?

Larry: Not really. Minimum twice a week.

Moe: There's a gym near me that teaches "MMA". Is that good?

Larry: Yes, that's fine.

(one month later)

Larry: How's your training going?

Moe: It's great! I go twice a week, just like you recommended, once to striking, and on ce to grappling. I'm hoping to get really good!

Larry: (facepalm)

Seems to me "MMA" can be an excuse to train half as much as you should be. Unless you're training full time like the pros of course.

If a dude does 4 years of MT, and then gets his BJJ purple in 5, that's IMO a dangerous person. How many are willing to train 9 years of "MMA" before thinking they are just as well trained?

Ha, yeah, I went to uni with a few guys like that, and they pretty much sucked when we got there, and sucked when we left (as did I).

Although, to play devils advocate, is there anything wrong with picking a few techniques from mixed sources and drilling repetitively in those?

For example, picking some basic strikes (Jab, hook, cross) maybe one kick (front kick, for ease), a takedown or two, a decent throw, a choke and an armbar, and then training them in their own context before sparring under unified rules? Could you build a delivery system equivalent to a purist over the same time? Albeit with a more diverse and less specialised, set of techniques.

You're right that if you just study a group of different arts for the same time as others do a single art, they will be good at one thing, and you will suck at many. But if you're specifically training MMA, and as a result train a few techniques from each discipline with the same vigour and time scale per technique that others train the whole discipline, will you still suck? I'm not so sure about this...

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to make the old, tired Jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none arugment, but I am trying to point out that the As-Seen-On-TV version of MMA is the product of people who really can train many, many times more than you can. It's not clear whether this is actually a workable training strategy for a civillian. Of course there is huge $$ riding on the assumption that it is.

Training in a martial art is better than training in a rule set. Of course. Beacuse MMA is just a rule set to apply said martial arts. If you don't have a martial art basis to apply the ruleset then what are you applying. That to me, seems to be the biggest issue.

Then you have the argument that GracieJJ is the complete martial art, so why bother with anything else? Of course, you train in GracieJJ only, then your striking is going to suck. But that only matters based on what sport your are applying the GJJ to.

It's not clear whether this is actually a workable training strategy for a civillian.'Workable' to what end? I think people are aware that training twice a week is not going to make them as good as a full-time professional.

Training in a martial art is better than training in a rule set. Of course. Beacuse MMA is just a rule set to apply said martial arts. If you don't have a martial art basis to apply the ruleset then what are you applying. That to me, seems to be the biggest issue.

Then you have the argument that GracieJJ is the complete martial art, so why bother with anything else? Of course, you train in GracieJJ only, then your striking is going to suck. But that only matters based on what sport your are applying the GJJ to.
I agree with this 90%. There is a certain style taught at MMA gyms; it's a kind of Shootfighting with the CACC aspect replaced with BJJ.

I think people are aware that training twice a week is not going to make them as good as a full-time professional.
Good because that's not what I was trying to say. I'm saying a split schedule is going to require at least 4 days (if not 5) a week to match Joe Hobbiest's lame ass rate of progress at 2 days a week in a non mixed style.

Now maybe I've got this wrong, but assuming I don't, I don't think many people are prepared to be in the gym 5 days a week making minimal progress.

Who are you arguing with, here? Sounds to me like a matter of personal preference whether you'd rather learn wide but slowly or narrowly but at a higher speed.

I don't think I'm arguing with anyone. I'm pointing out that the twice a week rule is bad advice for MMA, and maybe gets you next to 0 progress.

Chael Sonnen worked full time as a real estate agent for most of his career.

Keen amateurs train more often than twice a week, never mind professionals.

I'm genuinely curious about this "twice a week" theory. I don't have time to put in more than two days a week at the gym, but sometimes I'm able to put in 8 hours during the weekend.

Of course, by training, I'm not counting the jogging and skipping I do on a regular basis.