It varies from university to university. It doesn't take much time to send an e-mail asking. She would certainly be allowed to join pretty much any of the Oxford University or Oxford Brookes University martial arts clubs, for example. You've just advised a newcomer to martial arts to completely ignore an enormous potential resource because she risks losing the time it takes her to type a 2 line e-mail. It's worth the (minimal) effort involved because it could save her a lot of money.

Of course there are exceptions.

I based my views on actually having run a university club within the last 3 years, having been in contact with and having a strong understanding of martial arts clubs at universities across the country and having experience of national coordination events run by Judo's governing body at which nationwide issues like this were discussed amongst representatives of the majority of UK universities.

So, there may be exceptions, but my post outlined the general rule. As I think its fairer to make someone aware of the realities of non-students trying to get into university clubs than to artificially raise their expectations.

This doesn't prevent Kimberly from sending an e-mail if she wants to.



The way to judge a San Shou/San Da club is by asking about their competition record. Many of these places will also practice forms, so you cannot really judge the place based on seeing that on their site. This is one of the reasons it's so hard to find a trustworthy CMA school. It would help if they all put some video up of what they mean by 'San Shou', featuring people from their own club.
That's what I judged my assessment on. An abscence of fighter profiles and or instructor profiles listing a competition record is a basic test for all martial arts to show BS.

Of course there are exceptions.

I based my views on actually having run a university club within the last 3 years, having been in contact with and having a strong understanding of martial arts clubs at universities across the country and having experience of national coordination events run by Judo's governing body at which nationwide issues like this were discussed amongst representatives of the majority of UK universities.

So, there may be exceptions, but my post outlined the general rule. As I think its fairer to make someone aware of the realities of non-students trying to get into university clubs than to artificially raise their expectations.

This doesn't prevent Kimberly from sending an e-mail if she wants to.

In London she can join the University of London Union as an associate (membership for people who haven't ever studied at or worked at the University of London), and this allows her access to the martial arts clubs. It's more expensive than if she was a student, but still much less expensive than an annual membership at a gym chain like David Lloyd, or full-use membership of an MMA gym.

The problems with non-students joining university martial arts clubs are usually down to people not wanting the subsidy the club receives from the University to be used to support people who aren't affiliated with the university. However, as is the case in London (where she lives), and both universities where I live (Oxford), many of these student clubs simply charge 'town' members more and allow them to train.

The Oxford University Judo club simply has members of Oxford City Judo club training under the same instructor, on the same mats at the same time (they just pay a different fee), for example.

The 'non student' fees are still often far lower than commercial rates, so as she's in London it's worth her looking.

In London she can join the University of London Union as an associate (membership for people who haven't ever studied at or worked at the University of London), and this allows her access to the martial arts clubs. It's more expensive than if she was a student, but still much less expensive than an annual membership at a gym chain like David Lloyd, or full-use membership of an MMA gym.

The problems with non-students joining university martial arts clubs are usually down to people not wanting the subsidy the club receives from the University to be used to support people who aren't affiliated with the university. However, as is the case in London (where she lives), and both universities where I live (Oxford), many of these student clubs simply charge 'town' members more and allow them to train.

The Oxford University Judo club simply has members of Oxford City Judo club training under the same instructor, on the same mats at the same time (they just pay a different fee), for example.

The 'non student' fees are still often far lower than commercial rates, so as she's in London it's worth her looking.
As someone who has run a univeristy MA club and been in lots of contact with heads of sport from multiple univerities. The issue is not subsidy, rather that university authorities are concerned about non-students affecting the amount of students who can practice sport. Our raison d'etre is to promote sport for students not non-students.

Oxford Judo is a special case as Chris and Carol effectively run both clubs and so there is little separation between the two. I've done randori with Chris and students of Oxford city and Uni, so I know both Chris and the dynamic in Oxford re: Judo.

The only other unis with a similar very strong connection to a city/non-student club that I know of are Bristol and Edinburgh, who are both affiliated to the Japan Arts Centre and local Judo club respectively. This is not normal for Judo clubs or indeed for university MA clubs. Oxford is atypical and it is this atypicality that is part of the reason they usually trump Cambridge in the Judo part of the varsity.

I also know the instructors and the committee members at both Imperial and ULU Judo clubs- Smudge, Joe, Eduouard, Rahul etc.... and they don't really want to take on non-students. They concentrate on students as their priority.

So in my experience as the president of a uni Judo club and having contact with many other presidents. Non students aren't generally welcome and e-mails etc.. about membership are generally rejected regardless of economic situation.

The other martial arts clubs at Oxford University and Brookes have non-students attending too.

Having acted in an advisory capacity to Muay Thai, MMA and BJJ clubs looking to establish themselves, similar issues to Judo clubs are encountered when trying to establish and maintain MA clubs.

This is probably a distraction to Kimberly ,though, and if you wish to continue our conversation about MA and universities, perhaps it would be best to do it in another thread.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=106575

Having acted in an advisory capacity to Muay Thai, MMA and BJJ clubs looking to establish themselves, similar issues to Judo clubs are encountered when trying to establish and maintain MA clubs.

This is probably a distraction to Kimberly ,though, and if you wish to continue our conversation about MA and universities, perhaps it would be best to do it in another thread.

I have experience training at such clubs without being a student, and I can show you links to such clubs which accept non-students in London if you want.
The only club I encountered wary of accepting non-students was Oxford University boxing club, and they made it clear that was because they thought it was a waste of time training a 29 year old.

I'm sure the instructors you know would prefer to only teach students for the reason you gave, but even your broad University club experience doesn't cover every student club she might have saved a lot of money at.

Whoop, side discussion means you get my worthless opinion!

Oxford's possibly a bit of an exception because it's so small that it can't really support separate city/student clubs in a lot of MAs. The 1/4-1/3 of regular attendees who aren't students keep the clubs ticking over outside of term time too. I can see more campusified (that's a word) unis separating student sport out more thoroughly. Kind of surprised Cambridge don't mix it up given the size of the place.

They do

http://www.judo.soc.ucam.org/?page_id=31

"Anyone is welcome to become a member of the club weather you are a member of Cambridge University or not. "

Their University kickboxing club runs in tandem with a 'town' kickboxing club too.

http://www.srcf.ucam.org/cukbs/

In Edinburgh Uni, the reason non-students can do judo is not because of the club's links with Edinburgh Judo, but because the uni will let anyone who's a member of the sports centre take part in any of the university sports clubs. If you don't want to pay full whack, they will let you take up an associate membership.

In Ireland, Trinity College Dublin have the same policy, and University College Cork will let you take classes on pay-as-you-go.

End of the day though. It takes less than a minute to fire off an e-mail and find out what your local place's policy is. So it's something you really should check out.

My university's club (University of Florida Kickboxing) caters to students, but is open to the public.

My university's club (University of Florida Kickboxing) caters to students, but is open to the public.

So is mine (University of New South Wales)...as long as you pay the sports membership fee ON TOP of the regular insurance package as well as mat fees :P The prices are also much higher if ur an outside ($68 vs $43)

For what it's worth, the Tasmanian University Dojo Aikido and Judo clubs allow non-student members, provided they are either enrolled in adult education (very common and very easy to do, this practice is widespread in Australia) or they are paid members of the university gym, which is open to the public.

In addition to this, they accept casual members who are willing to sign a waiver, much like every other martial arts dojo in Australia.

From the sounds of what JUK is talking about, the dojo entry and club membership requirements in the UK are far more stringent.