I vaguely remember something along the lines of this awhile back. They talked about how much practice prodigies actually put into whatever they were doing and that is what made them better than everyone else. Do which I responded, "DUH".

Having a natural talent does make you good, having talent and a desire is what makes you the best.

None of the activities that you have mentioned require you to think and exert yourself at the same time. Martial arts requires both, well any competitive sport for that matter. Funny you say this the best chess player in the world does BJJ with Marcelo Garcia. **** someone name that book about that talks about that I think Mav should read it.
I understand the need to learn to solve problems under pressure. And that competitive sports of all sorts can develop this is kind of skill makes a lot of sense. I'm trying to reconcile how playing a sport, a game with no particular end goal besides "winning", with learning martial arts, which are a definable set of skills with applications outside their own practice.



Problem solving on any facet will make you better at problem solving. Because I am problem solving while I am being attacked and under physical exertion while doing martial arts how do you think I will handle a problem when I am sitting at my desk in the AC? How will I handle a problem at work when my boss is on my ass and it needs to get fixed now and the pressure is on and everyone is depending on me?
Problem solving under pressure, makes total sense to me. But that goes back to the above statement of why martial arts versus football for example.

I'm trying to understand what would motivate someone to begin training in martial arts if that person has no interest in learning how to fight hand to hand. And I'm having difficulty with this because it seems that there are other activities that offer these same benefits, problem solving under pressure, without having to fight.

I vaguely remember something along the lines of this awhile back. They talked about how much practice prodigies actually put into whatever they were doing and that is what made them better than everyone else. Do which I responded, "DUH".

Having a natural talent does make you good, having talent and a desire is what makes you the best.

I think, as with all scientific studies, the "what" aspect is somewhat obvious and the reasoning behind the study is to find out the "by how much".

They also look into the question of what kind of practice provides the most benefit and how much more effective is "directed practice" than other forms of practice.

A couple of interesting conclusion that were arrived in those studies are that about 5000 hours of directed practice seems to be the magic number for expertise. Another conclusion is that tournament practice has a fairly minor effect on the development of skills.

I have only won two matches in the past 5 years and have not had a fight since 2001.

How do you win a match while training?

I have only won two matches in the past 5 years and have not had a fight since 2001.

How do you win a match while training?

I'm really obtuse and thick skulled. What do you mean?

Let me rephrase the question. Why would I decide to start training in martial arts if my goals are not to learn fighting? What would the motivations be to choose martial arts over other activities if my goal is not to become good at fighting?

Because:

it's something one can do with one's children.
it's something one's friends already do.
it's a cultural expectation in some places, the same way every boy knowing the basics of baseball is in the US.
it's a cultural index in other places—to differentiate one's self from other people
it doesn't involve lots of equipment or access to a wide empty field unlike other sports
it's an individual rather than a team sport, for people who prefer one-on-one sort of sports or solo practice
it can be handy for self-defense, which isn't quite the same as "fighting"
at high levels it's a fun spectator sport and so at low levels it reflects a personal interest in the pro leagues
it builds a body in a way that other sports or exercises won't do as effectively
in some cases it is free or very inexpensive, unlike joining a gym or a sporting league.

I don't love the pain, and I don't do a super-rigorous martial art (though my training is rigorous for taiji). And I've had "the pain"—limping home from sheer exertion, bruises and busted lips, a tooth chip falling out of my mouth, strained tendons, a rib knocked out of place—not major stuff, certainly, but more than I would have experienced jogging unless I slipped and fell very badly.

But I don't love pain, and in fact taiji has eliminated pain. I work in publishing and spend ten or more hours a day at the keyboard. Many of my colleagues have RSIs of various sorts. I don't. Years ago I had a bad and lingering case of pneumonia and subsequently chronic bronchial infections. Whenever I felt a little bit of a cold coming on, I would have to immediately go to bed to avoid a harsh infection. Now I'm fine. I don't love the pain; I love not having the pain.

I've also lost about twenty pounds of fat and gained ten pounds of muscle. I know a few techniques that can help me extricate myself from a violent situation, even if most of the posters here could cream me in two seconds (and that's with them taking the first second to adjust their cups). I can also do some party tricks. I've made some good friends. I have fun meeting new people and pushing hands with them in the park by my house, and my dog likes spending time in the park with me when I practice. I've published an article and a piece of short fiction based on my taiji experiences—they paid me back for the first two years of tuition already. I enjoy reading and posting on this website. That's fine with me. Martial arts is one of my hobbies and has improved my life. So what if the overwhelming majority of fighters could beat me up?

Let me rephrase the question. Why would I decide to start training in martial arts if my goals are not to learn fighting? What would the motivations be to choose martial arts over other activities if my goal is not to become good at fighting?

Maybe you suck at catching and throwing, dancing is stupid, and find straight exercise boring?

I think people who are not going to become fighters benefit very much from rigorous training as it gives them a sense of perspective they would otherwise lack. IMO, it's a lot like reading literature in school. It doesn't entertain most people as well as bestsellers, nor does it help them reach their goal of becoming middle management and getting the slightly bigger cubicle. I genuinely think it does enrich their lives though.

Because you suck at catching and throwing, dancing is stupid, and straight exercise is boring as hell.

I agree with this, except dancing is actually awesome and gets you women. (If you like them.)

I've put some thought to this now, would I be correct in saying that learning to fight, and by fight I mean both competitively and for self defense, is actually a side benefit of martial arts training. The main benefits being athletic improvements in body and various mental capacity improvements.

Mav,

Put your hands in Bourdieu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Bourdieu)'s work on sociology of sports.

I've put some thought to this now, would I be correct in saying that learning to fight, and by fight I mean both competitively and for self defense, is actually a side benefit of martial arts training. The main benefits being athletic improvements in body and various mental capacity improvements.

So is martial arts for everyone?

So is martial arts for everyone?
Based purely on the opinions expressed by everyone who posted, they are for everyone who wants to achieve the benefits listed by the various posters.

Maverick, I do agree with you though that if you remove the fighting (meaning realistic training, not becoming a pro/amy fighter) from martial arts you do tend to neuter it. Learning to fight may only be a side-benefit, but I think you wind up losing a lot of the main benefits as well. I just don't think one gains the same sense of perspective throwing a compliant uke around. Still, I think that sort-of training is for everyone; whether they get it or want it is another story though.

Live training is better than non-live training, that's for sure. But live training can mean this:


http://youtu.be/6LrLPA1akdk

Or this:

http://youtu.be/crZnNXeBxuk
(One of the seven-year-old girls starts crying halfway through! She doesn't love the pain! Should she leave the mat forever?)

Or this:

http://youtu.be/eLz-sl1ZfBs


Or this:

http://youtu.be/eAY7yBQwP3c

I don't think many people are really prepared to feature in that last video. But when most of the time altercations for an average middle-classish person in a leading economic power altercations will be more like this:


http://youtu.be/4XeF72zLjNU
(He's fat! He holds his hands like he learned karate at a strip mall!)

Does it matter? And when it does matter, well, there are guns.

Man can we not do the WE ARE MODERN DAY SAMURAI ELITE WARRIORS thing? It's not just weirdly reactionary, it also draws an artificial dividing lines between the amateur and proffesional leagues. Especially in grappling, entering a competition, where you are guaranteed to be matched up with people around your age, weight and experience level, is something i'd reccomend for everyone.

Incidentally, why the **** do people yell at their kid's matches like it's the UFC HW title? And then if their kid loses and starts to cry they act like there's some virtue in telling them to shutup. Way to make yourself liable for years of therapy down the road, superdad.

Based purely on the opinions expressed by everyone who posted, they are for everyone who wants to achieve the benefits listed by the various posters.


No in your opinion and through our discussion do YOU believe that martial arts is for everyone now? No addendum. Did this discussion change your opinion?