Food for thought for your holiday reading enjoyment.

This research article raises some interesting questions about how Judo has evolved over the decades from Kano's ideal. Among other things...

http://www.archbudo.com/fulltxt.php?ICID=881204

Good read. Thank you for posting it.

No problem, here are two related articles by the same author, but earlier.

http://www.isdy.net/pdf/eng/2008_05.pdf

http://www.archbudo.com/fulltxt.php?ICID=855001

Interesting comments on Aikido and it's origins.

The thread at Judo Forum with some beginning discussion by real historians/researchers is here, for context.

http://judoforum.com/index.php?/topic/50231-judos-techniques-performed-from-a-distance/

Ben

Very interesting articles indeed. It is always nice to read articles on Aikido that refrain from being either all out promotional pieces or hatchet jobs. I like the questions the author raises in regards to the historical development and the presumed "static" form of Aikido today. I must admit that I am not massively knowledgeable on the matter, but I enjoyed the read.

As for the anti-Judo: I am not surprised that Ueshiba would emphasize countering before the judoka had achieved a grip, to say the least. Shame that historical sources are lacking on the matter.

It's interesting that even in Kano's time the concern about Judo being "physical education" and not effective "in the trenches". So pre WW2, we Judo was basically already "sportified", even in the eyes of the Japanese and Kano himself.

Ben

Thanks for the article, it is very fresh and a good read. I also find the emphasis on distance and in that respect comparison with kendo very interesting. In kendo, control the distance is your priority #1, while in judo I heard about it only as a factor to execute a throw properly or control the opponent, and not as a wide concept.

Someone more advanced should correct me if I am wrong, but there is no emphasis on range in judo, as before grabbing kumikata there is no opportunities / risks, unlike with weapons or striking discipline. This notion of range is only explored in kata. Again, please someone correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, I feel that this is lacking from the judoka toolset, especially when sparring with people from other disciplines.

I am not familiar with Tomiki Aikido, but it looks like this is something they got right. I would also point to the sport JJJ competition rules, which have an interesting approach; Instead of playing patty cake to grab kumikata, the fighters are allowed to strike each others with punches and kicks. Once one of them successfully grab kumikata, strikes are no more allowed.

Thanks for the article, it is very fresh and a good read. I also find the emphasis on distance and in that respect comparison with kendo very interesting. In kendo, control the distance is your priority #1, while in judo I heard about it only as a factor to execute a throw properly or control the opponent, and not as a wide concept.

Someone more advanced should correct me if I am wrong, but there is no emphasis on range in judo, as before grabbing kumikata there is no opportunities / risks, unlike with weapons or striking discipline. This notion of range is only explored in kata. Again, please someone correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, I feel that this is lacking from the judoka toolset, especially when sparring with people from other disciplines.

Controlling space and understanding distancing is vital in Judo. In the pre-grip stages the maai is critical to establishing superior kumikata. Once gripped up controlling the space to your advantage is also critical, gauging distancing and other spatial control and awareness are fundamental to movement patterns and debana.

Thanks for the article, it is very fresh and a good read. I also find the emphasis on distance and in that respect comparison with kendo very interesting. In kendo, control the distance is your priority #1, while in judo I heard about it only as a factor to execute a throw properly or control the opponent, and not as a wide concept.

Someone more advanced should correct me if I am wrong, but there is no emphasis on range in judo, as before grabbing kumikata there is no opportunities / risks, unlike with weapons or striking discipline. This notion of range is only explored in kata. Again, please someone correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, I feel that this is lacking from the judoka toolset, especially when sparring with people from other disciplines.

I am not familiar with Tomiki Aikido, but it looks like this is something they got right. I would also point to the sport JJJ competition rules, which have an interesting approach; Instead of playing patty cake to grab kumikata, the fighters are allowed to strike each others with punches and kicks. Once one of them successfully grab kumikata, strikes are no more allowed.

With the removal of direct attacks to the lower body (Morote Gari, Kuchiki Daoshi, etc.), the ability to attack from a distance in standard Judo is pretty much removed.

In terms of grappling, distance and space are still important concepts. You can be out of touching range (in which case the various hand to leg attacks were useful), close enough to touch with one hand, or both hands, and then various types of direct contact range and degrees of contact.

Sports ju jitsu is interesting, for sure. It might be what judo shiai in one it's aspects might have ended up like had Kano not passed away and or/WW2 started (and Japan lost!).

Tomiki Ryu I do not know enough about to comment intelligently. I do not think they include an sort of full contact striking in their randori/shiai, and use rubber knives in a form of randori and /or shiai.

Ben

So, to see if I get it right.

Kano was imagining Judo as a Kudo/ MMA with gi, and wished the most judokas to have at least training in anti-knife stuff.

And Aikido originaly had some good structure, bit more kenjutsu stuff, and a student of it developed a lot of counters for judo moves and suggested 51 moves for more affective judo-attacks?

Oh, and that today Aikido is stiff or even bad compared to what it originaly was?

So, to see if I get it right.

Kano was imagining Judo as a Kudo/ MMA with gi, and wished the most judokas to have at least training in anti-knife stuff.

And Aikido originaly had some good structure, bit more kenjutsu stuff, and a student of it developed a lot of counters for judo moves and suggested 51 moves for more affective judo-attacks?

Oh, and that today Aikido is stiff or even bad compared to what it originaly was?

First paragraph, not sure how you got that part.

Second, ditto.

Third, they say the same thing about modern Judo.

Ben

First paragraph, not sure how you got that part.

Second, ditto.

Third, they say the same thing about modern Judo.

Ben

For the first :
look at the first link. If you search the word knife, you will find the word twice in the text. If you read that part it says something about Kano's thoughts about (anti-)knife training. So, I guess my question stands.

Second:
I don't get what you mean with ditto, (obviously not the pokemon lol), but do you mean 'same as above'? or that the creator of the 147 moves just copied judo.

Third:
And they might not be mistaken. With the new rules we all know how the judo arcenal shortens.

For the first :
look at the first link. If you search the word knife, you will find the word twice in the text. If you read that part it says something about Kano's thoughts about (anti-)knife training. So, I guess my question stands.

Second:
I don't get what you mean with ditto, (obviously not the pokemon lol), but do you mean 'same as above'? or that the creator of the 147 moves just copied judo.

Third:
And they might not be mistaken. With the new rules we all know how the judo arcenal shortens.

Yes, you are absolutely correct on all counts.

Happy new year!

Ben