He's been at it a lot longer than that, Takamatsu died in '72 I think, and that's when Hatsumi published his first book on ninjutsu. It was Takamatsu that taught him the stuff, Hatsumi gave it a brand image.

"Stick Fighting: Techniques of Self Defense" that Hatsumi co-authored (with Quintin Chambers) has an original copyright of 1971. I think it was his first published work.

"Stick Fighting: Techniques of Self Defense" that Hatsumi co-authored (with Quintin Chambers) has an original copyright of 1971. I think it was his first published work.


I just looked it up via google, I'm not familiar with the content, actually from there it seems there was a book in 1964 as well.

http://hatsumi.gr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=30&Itemid=32

FFS rabbit, dont go frikking editing your posts so that my quote ends up with the new content and ends up totally out of context. It's no wonder you upset people.

And hatsumi published in 1964.

"Stick Fighting: Techniques of Self Defense" that Hatsumi co-authored (with Quintin Chambers) has an original copyright of 1971. I think it was his first published work.

Probably in English. That's the earliest book I'm concious of; short of looking at all the copyrights in my library.

But there's a lot of material untranslated in Japanese. And I think it goes back earlier than that 1971.

But Hatsumi certainly had a "ninjutsu" reputation further back than 1971. There are anecdotes about the James Bond production company contacting him regarding ninjutsu techniques for You Only Live Twice, which was released in 1967. (BTW, the short version is, they missed a meeting time with Hatsumi, and he refused to reschedule.)

Of course, we all sometimes forget that the Ninja Boom we are all familiar with in the 80's was really the Western Ninja Boom. There was a Japanese Ninja Boom in the 1950's and 60's.

I just looked it up via google, I'm not familiar with the content...

FWIW, Stick Fighting concerns techniques for using the hanbo and other, shorter sticks drawn from the Kukishin Ryu. Not a word about ninja in the book. All the techniques are performed in white dogi and black hakama.

And yes, IIRC, the techniques are described as Kukishin Ryu, not Kukishinden Ryu.

He's been at it a lot longer than that, Takamatsu died in '72 I think, and that's when Hatsumi published his first book on ninjutsu. It was Takamatsu that taught him the stuff, Hatsumi gave it a brand image.


"Stick Fighting: Techniques of Self Defense" that Hatsumi co-authored (with Quintin Chambers) has an original copyright of 1971. I think it was his first published work.

And because i'm annoyed now I'll also be pedantic enough to point out that Stick Fighting is a book about Kukishin ryu, and has nothing to do with Ninjutsu.

FWIW, Stick Fighting concerns techniques for using the hanbo and other, shorter sticks drawn from the Kukishin Ryu. Not a word about ninja in the book. All the techniques are performed in white dogi and black hakama.

And yes, IIRC, the techniques are described as Kukishin Ryu, not Kukishinden Ryu.


Hehe, once again, I am too slow.

Rabbit, quite being such a passive aggressive and giving me **** feedback and wanky comments just because you were wrong again.

Its fucking childlike.

"Stick Fighting: Techniques of Self Defense" that Hatsumi co-authored (with Quintin Chambers) has an original copyright of 1971. I think it was his first published work.

That book is Kukishin-ryu Bojutsu a Ko-ryu Bojutsu art in a Ryu-Ha Takamatsu was a legitimate Shihan in. In fact if you look at the book they are wearing white gis and hakama like a standard Ko-ryu Jujutsu-ka. Ninjutsu isn't referenced AT ALL in that book.

Bujinkan IS Jujutsu. Just done with Tabi and a "We are deadly ninja mindset."Sure, what I meant is they didn't train specifically in Bujinkan.
to keep Judo from going the same route as Jujutsu (being stagnant).I'm not sure that was his motivation at all, or at least his primary one.

That book is Kukishin-ryu Bojutsu a Ko-ryu Bojutsu art in a Ryu-Ha Takamatsu was a legitimate Shihan in. In fact if you look at the book they are wearing white gis and hakama like a standard Ko-ryu Jujutsu-ka. Ninjutsu isn't referenced AT ALL in that book.

My bad, I was under the impression that we were talking about the Bujinkan, not ninjutsu. I was also under the impression kukishin-ryu was taught by Hatsumi in the Booj based on the order I read his books. Thank you for the clarification. Of all the Hatsumi works I have Stick Fighting seems to stand alone, then, as being "un-ninjalike".

Sure, what I meant is they didn't train specifically in Bujinkan.I'm not sure that was his motivation at all, or at least his primary one.
Correct that was not at all Kano's objective in developing Judo. However, I'm not going to derail the thread again.

I'm not sure that was his motivation at all, or at least his primary one.

Actually, his primary motivation for creating Judo was that since the Japanese were no longer at war with each other that Jujutsu was becoming a stagnant art full of flower kata and on the verge of being a joke with the general public. Judo was the end result of his effort to stop that.

My bad, I was under the impression that we were talking about the Bujinkan, non ninjutsu. I was also under the impression kukishin-ryu was taught by Hatsumi in the Booj based on the order I read his books. Thank you for the clarification. Of all the Hatsumi works I have Stick Fighting seems to stand alone, then, as being "un-ninjalike".

Now we're chin deep in the semantics...

Kukishin/Kukishinden Ryu is taught under the Bujinkan umbrella.

Kukishin Ryu is a sogo bujutsu, but is not ninjutsu.

Of the nine ryu the Bujinkan/Hatsumi claims, only three are identified as ninjutsu. However, links to ninja are hinted at with some of the other ryu.

The Bujinkan has not been around as long as Hatsumi has been teaching the same material. The loose structure of the Bujinkan grew out of Hatsumi's need for some organization. I don't have the exact date of the first mention of Bujinkan, but I could look it up. I want to say it was devised in the mid-80's.

In the mid-90's, Hatsumi started referring to the mixed arts he taught under the name "Budo Taijutsu" where he had previously referred to the arts under the umbrella of ninjutsu or "ninpo taijutsu." Interestingly, I have started to see rare instances of mega-dan students referring to Hatsumi's blend as "Hatsumi Ryu." I have mixed feelings about this, but acknowledge that it may be an accurate description of the state of the art as Hatsumi teaches it.

My bad, I was under the impression that we were talking about the Bujinkan, not ninjutsu. I was also under the impression kukishin-ryu was taught by Hatsumi in the Booj based on the order I read his books. Thank you for the clarification. Of all the Hatsumi works I have Stick Fighting seems to stand alone, then, as being "un-ninjalike".

As I said earlier in the thread. Hatsumi ran a Jujutsu school for years before Hayes. It was only after he saw the amount of money Hayes was raking in did he decide to promote his school as ninjutsu. This is was in the 80s.

Hatsumi ran a Jujutsu school for years before Hayes.

How very ninja-like to hide in plain sight!:ninjadanc

Correct that was not at all Kano's objective in developing Judo. However, I'm not going to derail the thread again.

Please elaborate. In the first chapter of Kodokan Judo by Jigoro Kano "Jujutsu becomes Judo." He talk about the poor state Jujutsu was in, how he removed techniques he felt was poor and added new one to create Judo.