That's because in Savate it has to be 50% boxing, 50% kicking and since clinching is prohibited you are always on the move.

There is no quota for boxing and kicking in Muay Thai, this combined with the clinch and short distance fighting will make that the boxing becomes more dominant in a fight.

Both Muay Thai and Savate have the same stance when you aren't kicking or boxing. Namely with your weight in the middle, evenly distributed over the two legs.

The weight distribution is the same but the stance in very different. Savates walking stance as the feet pretty close together and the boxing turned making it a very small target while in Muay Thai you have a very squared stance. Also consider the advantage of footwork in savate which Muay Thai greatly lacks another factor that makes them an excellent pairing.

So what I have gotten from this thread is that they seem to compliment each other very well. Just out of curiosity are there any professional fighters who have paired them and how did they do?

So what I have gotten from this thread is that they seem to compliment each other very well. Just out of curiosity are there any professional fighters who have paired them and how did they do?

Considering most MMA type fighters will automatically stigmatize Savate and say that it's useless, but that all comes from malinformed bias. Chiek Kongo has indeed trained in Savate and Muay That tho he many not be the top of the ladder when it comes to heavyweights he is still pretty damn sucessful. Most will discount Savate immediately tho, their loss.

Considering most MMA type fighters will automatically stigmatize Savate and say that it's useless, but that all comes from malinformed bias. Chiek Kongo has indeed trained in Savate and Muay That tho he many not be the top of the ladder when it comes to heavyweights he is still pretty damn sucessful. Most will discount Savate immediately tho, their loss.
Yeah he may not be a "Super Star" but he has a good record 15-6 with 9 of those 15 coming from knock out. He also has the greco-roman thing going for him so his stand up grappling and striking all around are pretty good.
Even though he has had 3 victories by sub I would say his ground work can certainly use some work especially in comparison to those who are now the "Super Stars".

I was really thinking along the lines of something more like K-1 vs No holds bar since it is a striking discussion vs a MMA thing. Any other examples?

Yeah he may not be a "Super Star" but he has a good record 15-6 with 9 of those 15 coming from knock out. He also has the greco-roman thing going for him so his stand up grappling and striking all around are pretty good.
Even though he has had 3 victories by sub I would say his ground work can certainly use some work especially in comparison to those who are now the "Super Stars".

I was really thinking along the lines of something more like K-1 vs No holds bar since it is a striking discussion vs a MMA thing. Any other examples?

I'd need to do a bit more research into it. I'll be sure to get back to you tho.

Farid Khider

YouTube - Farid khider highlight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq-vXhU9eKs)

He's a Tireur (Savateur) that started with Savate, fought Kickboxing and Fullcontact and branched out to Muay Thai and English Boxing with also a win in K1

Savate:
2000-2005: French champion
2003: World champion
2004: European champion
2005: World champion

Kickboxing:
1996-1997: French champion
1999: champion (I think the european one, but I'm not sure)

Full Contact:
1996-1998: French champion
1998: European champion
2005: vice World champion

Muay Thai:
1999: Intercontinental champion
2003: World champion
2004: World champion
2005: European champion

K1:
2006: K1 World Max Japan: Win over Yuja Yamamoto

English Boxing:
40 amateur fights
2002: champion of Ile-de-France (Regional champion Paris capital and state).

and he got his own rapsong by a french hip hop group.

I don't have a problem with Savat but I don't rate it that highly either. It's got that sweet thigh push kick but otherwise it's more like shiny trousers kickboxing than MT. It's rule set is far too restrictive, anything you can't do, you can in MT.

It's a perfectly good art but if you have the choice between the two arts I can't see the point in Savat, even training both of them, just learn MT and be a broader fighter.

Considering most MMA type fighters will automatically stigmatize Savate and say that it's useless, but that all comes from malinformed bias. Chiek Kongo has indeed trained in Savate and Muay That tho he many not be the top of the ladder when it comes to heavyweights he is still pretty damn sucessful. Most will discount Savate immediately tho, their loss.

You are generalizing quite a bit here. Almost to the point of trolling or showing bias and/or ignorance yourself...

If you search you will see quite a few threads and posts about Savate here. Most positive, some homophobic jokes about unitards and cowboy boots, and some interesting discussions on techniques done by all sorts of guys and gals from all sorts of styles mixed, sport, TMA, strikers, grapplers, and even JKD WC LARPers.

You can take your MMA guy stereotype bullshit and shove it up your ass. If a person can't see the useful bits in Savate they are either not really a fighter or not paying attention.

The weight distribution is the same but the stance in very different. Savates walking stance as the feet pretty close together and the boxing turned making it a very small target while in Muay Thai you have a very squared stance. Also consider the advantage of footwork in savate which Muay Thai greatly lacks another factor that makes them an excellent pairing.


The stance in Savate, Muay Thai, Full Contact, Kickboxing, Shoot Boxing and English Boxing is the same, namely the orthodox boxing stance:
- Feet at shoulder wide
- toes pointing straight forward
- left foot one pace behind
- weight even distributed between the two legs
- knees a fraction bend

There's a reason why this stance comes back in all the 'kick'boxing styles and English boxing: It is the best compromise between stability, movability, reach, power generation, speed.
Change your stand to improve on one charistic and the rest will become weaker.

The only way that it can come over that Savate has a smaller stance than Muay Thai is when you throw a series of kicks. In that case we won't bend the knees slightly. This is to gain speed between kicks, but we slightly sacrefice our stability by putting our center of gravity higher.

Infact Savate has an overall wider stance than the boxing stance because we kick more and have to compasate for stability by putting an inch to the side and 2 inches to the back extra in our stance when we put our foot back to the ground. Offcourse a split second later we have compasated that back to the normal boxing stance.

Now I know that rookies in Savate will 'forget' to bend their knees and rookies in Muay Thai will take a slidely wider stance.
But this will improve by time since the higher unstability of Savate rookies make them perfect targets to sweep kicks and the wider stance of Muay Thai rookies make them slower and thus better targets for lowkicks. How wider the stance, how longer it takes to move your weight to the back so that you can shinblock a lowkick.

the feet don't point straight forward in a boxing stance.

Also, I don't see how people can imply that savate fighters have good boxing. They are probably taught the elements of boxing but pretty much all kickboxers will suck if you put them straight into a boxing match because of the many subtle differences.

A possible exception is very tall guys having a chance of keeping someone on the end of a jab.

the feet don't point straight forward in a boxing stance.

Also, I don't see how people can imply that savate fighters have good boxing. They are probably taught the elements of boxing but pretty much all kickboxers will suck if you put them straight into a boxing match because of the many subtle differences.

A possible exception is very tall guys having a chance of keeping someone on the end of a jab.

There is a small rotation on the feet, but nothing more than 15°.

Savateurs are taught English Boxing with all the subtle differences in their art. This can be done because they really fight on two different distances.

Tireurs change between English Boxing and Savate kicking, this is because only the foot can be used as a striking zone, so you really are constantly changing between two distances.
The reason that tireurs don't do well against English Boxers is because of the time training in the arts. A tireur trains 50% Boxing and 50% Kicking while an Boxer trains 100% Boxing.

The same as putting a MMA fighter in a Muay Thai match. I'll bet on his opponent if he is a Thaiboxer.

Also, I don't see how people can imply that savate fighters have good boxing. They are probably taught the elements of boxing but pretty much all kickboxers will suck if you put them straight into a boxing match because of the many subtle differences.

A possible exception is very tall guys having a chance of keeping someone on the end of a jab.
Fun story:

When I quit my job as a kung fu instructor, I was looking for a job for quite some time. I found a craigslist ad about a boxing/kickboxing gym looking for a trainer, and I figured with my martial arts background (including san da) I might cut it and end up having a new place to train too. Instead of a regular interview, they had me come in on a friday and saturday to train. Day 1 they wanted to see if I could work mitts and thai pads and could work the bag correctly. That day went well. The next day, they had me spar under boxing rules, which I am very not used to at all. I sparred 3 or 4 guys, and the only thing I was getting to work was keeping distance with a jab because I was considerably taller. Eventually my nose wouldn't stop bleeding and that's when we called it a day. Never heard back from them, but I figured if I wasn't good enough after all the years of kung fu, then quitting kung fu was a good decision.

So what I have gotten from this thread is that they seem to compliment each other very well. Just out of curiosity are there any professional fighters who have paired them and how did they do?

I believe Ernesto Hoost paired both styles, being a former world champion in savate. With four K-1 titles on his name, I'd say he did quite well.

STX

Savate Thai Cross training

http://www.kombatarts.com/Classes/STX/index.html

It exists

Done it, liked it. Wish I was training it or any martial arts at present



STX stands for Savate-Thai-Crosstraining. This is the stand-up style that is taught by Erik Paulson (erikpaulson.com) as a result of the training he’s had from his many instructors.
From Savate, STX draws its footwork and evasiveness. Savate is known for being highly mobile and constantly moving which makes you harder to hit and allows you to attack at angles.

STX also capitalizes on Savate’s many fakes and setups so that the opponent is constantly guessing as to which attack is real and what is just a misleading fake. Following the misleading attacks is a system of extremely fluid combinations that help to allow the fighter to land more hits than the opponent while moving in and out of range at good angles. On defense, STX draws from some of the unique defense and counter techniques that help to keep your opponent out of his game and help you to set up your shots more like a chess match. Savate is also a much longer range kicking method.

From Thai boxing, STX obviously draws its powerful kicking and conditioning. It will also utilize the stand your ground attitude of Muay Thai with good, strong defensive techniques and quick, powerful counters. STX also uses the closing and clinching techniques that Muay Thai is known for so that you can control and apply knees, elbows and close range punching.

Although STX is heavily based on Savate and Muay Thai, it also has elements that are modified and used from other arts and disciplines such as Kali, Silat, Greco Roman Wrestling, and Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do concepts.

How exactly does Savat have a longer range kicking method?

How exactly does Savat have a longer range kicking method?
Chassé croisé?